502 Sanderson headers
502 Sanderson headers
Got my bike back from Sanderson yesterday. I had a set of 2" primary into 2 1/2" into 3" Tri Y headers built. Also had the turn outs flattened to an oval for ground clearance. I have ony ridden it for about an hour but it really seems to have helped my mid-range and top end.
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
Tom,
3" oval is great looking! Did you primarily do for looks or did you know there would be a performance boost? Any change in the exhaust note?
You were wise to oval the turn outs. I remember Charlie and I both did our own 3" exhaust ends on our 502's and we were making sparks regularly in the turns. Ours were kind of oval too. Round tops and flat, raggety bottoms if you know what I mean.
Elliot
3" oval is great looking! Did you primarily do for looks or did you know there would be a performance boost? Any change in the exhaust note?
You were wise to oval the turn outs. I remember Charlie and I both did our own 3" exhaust ends on our 502's and we were making sparks regularly in the turns. Ours were kind of oval too. Round tops and flat, raggety bottoms if you know what I mean.
Elliot
...Todd, North Carolina
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
mumma mia...you could sit on a milk crate and look at those pipes all day. Some seriously nice fabrication there. Tom you need to tell us how much they charged you 
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
El... I did it because I had round tips on my small block with sandersons and like you say the would drag easy and got ground down. It has a much deeper exhaust note and the ol butt dyno says they made a big improvment.. $2000 fabbed coated and installed.
Next is heads cam intake and carb.
Next is heads cam intake and carb.
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
Tom,
Now your talking. It's amazing how asleep that 502 is coming out of the crate and especially set up as it is.
I've seen some guys at the track who are running crate 502's in their Nova's and Chevelle's. They are really capable of making some serious horsepower. A long time ago I was doing a lot of reading on one of the Chevy boards and many of them were finding 700+ hp without using nitrous but rather via carb, intake, cam and heads.
I personally always disliked the mild cam in the crate 502's. Never changed mine but did do a lot of screwing around with different carbs. We had pretty good luck with the Demons at the track but never got them to stay consistent for street use. Finally ended up with Holleys on both big and smallblocks with much better success. In spite of trying just about everything in the book with the Edelbrocks, we just gave up. Always a stumble, always a problem on the top end...we had a pretty big pile of them sitting in the shit pile.
I suspect you may have some challenges with the intake selection due to clearance issues. Same with the chopper. Stan indicated the intake is the "weak link" so to speak but fit is paramount to volume of air in this case. I suspect that DART motor would be making significantly better power with a better intake. I'll also be using an Edelbrock (shit). Again, it's clearance and fit, not choice.
I'll be real interested to hear your progress. Please keep me in the loop through this board as you progress. You must be chompin' at the bit! Have fun!
Elliot
Now your talking. It's amazing how asleep that 502 is coming out of the crate and especially set up as it is.
I've seen some guys at the track who are running crate 502's in their Nova's and Chevelle's. They are really capable of making some serious horsepower. A long time ago I was doing a lot of reading on one of the Chevy boards and many of them were finding 700+ hp without using nitrous but rather via carb, intake, cam and heads.
I personally always disliked the mild cam in the crate 502's. Never changed mine but did do a lot of screwing around with different carbs. We had pretty good luck with the Demons at the track but never got them to stay consistent for street use. Finally ended up with Holleys on both big and smallblocks with much better success. In spite of trying just about everything in the book with the Edelbrocks, we just gave up. Always a stumble, always a problem on the top end...we had a pretty big pile of them sitting in the shit pile.
I suspect you may have some challenges with the intake selection due to clearance issues. Same with the chopper. Stan indicated the intake is the "weak link" so to speak but fit is paramount to volume of air in this case. I suspect that DART motor would be making significantly better power with a better intake. I'll also be using an Edelbrock (shit). Again, it's clearance and fit, not choice.
I'll be real interested to hear your progress. Please keep me in the loop through this board as you progress. You must be chompin' at the bit! Have fun!
Elliot
...Todd, North Carolina -
gaston 2005 502
- Posts: 454
- Joined: Fri Nov 16, 2007 9:58 pm
- Location: South Texas & Working Around the World, Across The Nation And Up Your Street
- Contact:
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
Tom,,
Your bike sure does look good. Beautiful paint, everything A-1
Pipes look great too. I noticed several things to inquire of your bike. The body panels fit with chrome allen head bolts, what did you do on the inside to use these? Same stock press in threaded hole (unsure of correct name for these items)? or did you upgrade?
I also see the MSD plug wires. How they holding up? Would you have a part number? Do they come assembled or do you have to cut to length?
Also at the back of the heads you have a chrome wire holder to keep the wires in order there, before they go into the looms, where do you get this and would you have a part number? if you are able to provide this it will be appreciated, and i have to say again,, sure is a good looking bike!
Your bike sure does look good. Beautiful paint, everything A-1
Pipes look great too. I noticed several things to inquire of your bike. The body panels fit with chrome allen head bolts, what did you do on the inside to use these? Same stock press in threaded hole (unsure of correct name for these items)? or did you upgrade?
I also see the MSD plug wires. How they holding up? Would you have a part number? Do they come assembled or do you have to cut to length?
Also at the back of the heads you have a chrome wire holder to keep the wires in order there, before they go into the looms, where do you get this and would you have a part number? if you are able to provide this it will be appreciated, and i have to say again,, sure is a good looking bike!
Darryl Campbell
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
I`ll do it El... Question. Do you know if there is any difference in the secondary throttle shaft on the accelerator pump end between the holley and demon?? I think that is where I will have clearance issues.
I think I am going to try one of edelbrock`s top end kits. They advertise it at 611 HP. I want to keep it srteetable and able to do some long rides. The kit they have includes heads with 106cc chambers and 2.25 and 1.90 valves. The cam is something like 236-245 duraton at 50 and 625-639 lift with a LSA of 109. Includes a victor jr single plane intake, lifters,timing chain and all the gaskets.
What do you think?
I think I am going to try one of edelbrock`s top end kits. They advertise it at 611 HP. I want to keep it srteetable and able to do some long rides. The kit they have includes heads with 106cc chambers and 2.25 and 1.90 valves. The cam is something like 236-245 duraton at 50 and 625-639 lift with a LSA of 109. Includes a victor jr single plane intake, lifters,timing chain and all the gaskets.
What do you think?
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
Tom,
Yes, the ends of the shafts on the Demon's accelerator pump are too long. I ended up spending time with Marv at Daytona and left deciding I was going to put a Demon 850 (as memory serves me) on the bigblock. Marv sent me one and there were clearance issues on the left side. We cut the shafts and re-welded so the secondary linkage cleared the frame. It worked fine. Pretty easy to do.
Friend with a smallblock Boss using a different intake and Demon took a different route. He ended up notching the frame and welding a flat piece to it. I'm not into frame notching but his favorite tools are a sawzall, grinder and welder, hee hee. It did work fine for him. He's the guy who had the wild wheelie smallblock, Doug K.
As a last word on that, you may be well served giving Mike Kelly a call at Summit. Mike has done a bunch with bigblocks, intakes, heads, carbs, etc. He may even have something going with respect to the Demon. I will caution you, we had some successes and failures with the Demons. It ends up being a "do you like chocolate or do you like vanilla deal." They did dramatically outperform the Edelbrocks but at the expense of constant tweaking. I ended up becoming a pretty devout Holley fan ultimately.
Those kits such as the Edelbrock kit you reference are really nice. I listen to the number with respect to cam and heads and they're HUGE! I've been focused on the smallblocks of late because of the motor being used on the chopper and I smile at what can be done with the bigblocks. Good friend Rick V. bought a kit from Summit or Jeg's called Power Max II or something like that. Took his stock ZZ4 to 425 hp with a great attitude.
Sounds like a lot of fun. Wish we lived closer (by a few thousand miles). That sounds like something I'd sure like being part of. Good luck!
Elliot
Yes, the ends of the shafts on the Demon's accelerator pump are too long. I ended up spending time with Marv at Daytona and left deciding I was going to put a Demon 850 (as memory serves me) on the bigblock. Marv sent me one and there were clearance issues on the left side. We cut the shafts and re-welded so the secondary linkage cleared the frame. It worked fine. Pretty easy to do.
Friend with a smallblock Boss using a different intake and Demon took a different route. He ended up notching the frame and welding a flat piece to it. I'm not into frame notching but his favorite tools are a sawzall, grinder and welder, hee hee. It did work fine for him. He's the guy who had the wild wheelie smallblock, Doug K.
As a last word on that, you may be well served giving Mike Kelly a call at Summit. Mike has done a bunch with bigblocks, intakes, heads, carbs, etc. He may even have something going with respect to the Demon. I will caution you, we had some successes and failures with the Demons. It ends up being a "do you like chocolate or do you like vanilla deal." They did dramatically outperform the Edelbrocks but at the expense of constant tweaking. I ended up becoming a pretty devout Holley fan ultimately.
Those kits such as the Edelbrock kit you reference are really nice. I listen to the number with respect to cam and heads and they're HUGE! I've been focused on the smallblocks of late because of the motor being used on the chopper and I smile at what can be done with the bigblocks. Good friend Rick V. bought a kit from Summit or Jeg's called Power Max II or something like that. Took his stock ZZ4 to 425 hp with a great attitude.
Sounds like a lot of fun. Wish we lived closer (by a few thousand miles). That sounds like something I'd sure like being part of. Good luck!
Elliot
...Todd, North Carolina 
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
Darryl,
The 02 bikes came with the allen head bolts and use a rubber backed washer to protect the paint. The inside threaded inserts are the same as yours. The MSD wires work well and I have had great luck with them on this bike as well as my old small block and the wife`s trike. I use part number MSD-31189 from Summit for the big block. They are cut to fit but they come with a nice little tool for crimping the ends at the distributor. The plug end is assembled. The wire seperators are just a generic item available at kragens or autozone for a few bucks.
Thanks for the kind words... It`s a work in progress for sure.
Tom.
The 02 bikes came with the allen head bolts and use a rubber backed washer to protect the paint. The inside threaded inserts are the same as yours. The MSD wires work well and I have had great luck with them on this bike as well as my old small block and the wife`s trike. I use part number MSD-31189 from Summit for the big block. They are cut to fit but they come with a nice little tool for crimping the ends at the distributor. The plug end is assembled. The wire seperators are just a generic item available at kragens or autozone for a few bucks.
Thanks for the kind words... It`s a work in progress for sure.
Tom.
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
Tom, thanks for the PM. I'm really excited for you with all the goodies you have coming. You're going to have not only a great looking bike but the performance should be over the top. It drives me toward a thought that may be a bit opinionated but WTF...
Gary and I had an early Kannon/V8Chopper frame and had an idea to put a bigblock in it. It was actually my old motor from Big Red! I bought it back from the salvage yard up north after John's wreck and we cleaned it up (lots of fire damage) and it was good as gold. Anyhow, I used to always tell all the smallblock guys that they had "girl's" motors and a REAL V8 needed to be a bigblock. This type of good natured stuff has been going back and forth with me since the late 60's and my Fairlane GT with a 390 bigblock. We hated the look in the chopper frame and didn't go forward with that project.
Gary's smallblock was faster than my bigblock but the attitude of the bigblock was incomparible. Even with Gary's wild cam and really high compression pistons in the smallblock, it seemed most of the ewwws and ahhhhs were when lightweights would see the "502" badge on the big motor.
When I hear the cam and head specs associated with your kit, it makes me really miss a bigblock. I'm hoping the DART smallblock I'm getting will have some lope, noise and pounding. I have no doubt it will haul ass and makes lots of hp, I just hope it has that snotty attitude that the bigblocks have. Especially one like your fixing to have.
Elliot
Gary and I had an early Kannon/V8Chopper frame and had an idea to put a bigblock in it. It was actually my old motor from Big Red! I bought it back from the salvage yard up north after John's wreck and we cleaned it up (lots of fire damage) and it was good as gold. Anyhow, I used to always tell all the smallblock guys that they had "girl's" motors and a REAL V8 needed to be a bigblock. This type of good natured stuff has been going back and forth with me since the late 60's and my Fairlane GT with a 390 bigblock. We hated the look in the chopper frame and didn't go forward with that project.
Gary's smallblock was faster than my bigblock but the attitude of the bigblock was incomparible. Even with Gary's wild cam and really high compression pistons in the smallblock, it seemed most of the ewwws and ahhhhs were when lightweights would see the "502" badge on the big motor.
When I hear the cam and head specs associated with your kit, it makes me really miss a bigblock. I'm hoping the DART smallblock I'm getting will have some lope, noise and pounding. I have no doubt it will haul ass and makes lots of hp, I just hope it has that snotty attitude that the bigblocks have. Especially one like your fixing to have.
Elliot
...Todd, North Carolina Re: 502 Sanderson headers
Tom, those headers do look pretty nice. Couple of questions...is the leg split larger when you add headers? Meaning that the width of the 502 is pretty hefty and a wide ride...maybe myth but I was told the headers take your legs out a big further. Next, I have headers on the 470 and I hit a lot on turns. When you ride this enough I would like to know the clearance issue if possible. Sound, the stock headers actually seem tame to me, so easy not to stir up local noise problems, what are these like. Lastly, put on stock 502 what are performace improvments? Thanks, Pete
"Speed costs money. How fast do you wanna go?"
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
Tom, also when you say just got back from Sanderson...is this a local Sanderson shop?
"Speed costs money. How fast do you wanna go?"
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
Hi pete...
Sanderson header Co. is in San Francisco so it`s not far from here. When I took my bike there to have the headers made I was specific about not wanting an increase in width because I have a short inseam. Boyd did a great job of turning the primary tubes down so as to not make it any wider. They do seem to add some performance increase to the mid range and top end for sure. Sound wise... with the oval tips I had him make they are not much if any louder but have a deeper tone for sure. ground clearance is about the same as stock and that is the reason I had him make the tips oval shaped. They are also turned up just slightly to help there.
If you are thinking of getting a set give me a call. The heads I am using are advertised as having stock exhaust port location but now that I have them in hand the ports are raised .750... Not good. I am either going to have to go back to Sanderson and have my headers modified or do some other modifications to make them fit. It`s either that or sell mine and have a new set made. (3 week wait) bummer.
Sanderson header Co. is in San Francisco so it`s not far from here. When I took my bike there to have the headers made I was specific about not wanting an increase in width because I have a short inseam. Boyd did a great job of turning the primary tubes down so as to not make it any wider. They do seem to add some performance increase to the mid range and top end for sure. Sound wise... with the oval tips I had him make they are not much if any louder but have a deeper tone for sure. ground clearance is about the same as stock and that is the reason I had him make the tips oval shaped. They are also turned up just slightly to help there.
If you are thinking of getting a set give me a call. The heads I am using are advertised as having stock exhaust port location but now that I have them in hand the ports are raised .750... Not good. I am either going to have to go back to Sanderson and have my headers modified or do some other modifications to make them fit. It`s either that or sell mine and have a new set made. (3 week wait) bummer.
Re: 502 Sanderson headers
Tom, keep me informed on what you do with the set of headers you have...might be interested....all about clearence.
"Speed costs money. How fast do you wanna go?"