I SWEAR !!!

[craig haymaker]

Please understand that I am not bitchen here, and I know that Ricky & Co. is addressing this very issue, and I am so very greatfull for that. But I swear : I've been through at least 4- Reprogrammed ECUs now on my 2014 LS-485 57 trike! And on every one, it "seams to me", the program de-grades over time ?
I know, how in the world could that even be possible ? But it seams, the longer I run with said re-programmed ECU = the crappier the LS-485 runs and the shift patterns change, again how in the heck can even be possible?
Sensor degradation can happen over time, BUT the ECU should have the ability to compensate. And besides, with only 8,500 mi. on my baby, is that not normal, especially when no MILs show up ?
Now please understand here, that I am most thankful for this experience, because it has encouraged me to learn a hole bunch about MPFI. "I have come to love the challenge of the B.H. EFI system."
So is it just Mr. OCD Craig, or has any other late model Boss Hoss owners precived this same experience??
I might add here if I may please; that the factory and in particular Mr. Doug Z., has bent over backwards to try to rectify Craigie's issues ! No other motorcycle company would be that accommodating!
I love you Boss Hoss, and together we will move into our next phase ! Craig Haymaker, Pasco, WA.

[arizona outlaw]

Who is reprograming your ECU every time? The programing is detuned from the factory on purpose. The ECU that is being used is out of a Chev Trailblazer. Just go replace it and retune to what an LS should be and to the HP you paid for in the first place. My tuner friend here in Scottsdale took mine out and broke the code to get into it. What he told me was the engine was so detuned it was pathetic. He replaced it with a different one. Wow what a difference with way over a 100 HP gain.

[craig haymaker]

Now that is very interesting Arizona Outlaw ! I've had two different well known engine tuners in my neck of the woods, access my ECM through HP tuners. Neither could get past the "lock" and didn't try, and they both said labor and time wise, just buy a new ECM (about $250) and they would start from scratch ! So is yours running "better in all aspects" now with an after market program? I have heard that even with the little quirks in our current program, no one has been able so far, to break in and improve it's overall run ability !
If no one here minds, I would like to shed a little history on the evolution of Boss Hoss EFI ! This is geared towards you newer owners, in our BH family. I feel that I can speak somewhat accurately here, because I have owned every EFI updated bike or trike that the factory has built. The answer is "NO", I'm not wealthy, it's just that Ron at Wildrose BH is such a darn nice and honest person, and it's etched into my blood, I'm now paying for it in my retirement years, LOL !
Boss Hoss has been through several ECMs & tuning companies since they began with Holley TBI EFI back in 2002. These first GM #1226519 prom chipped ECMs were programmed by Howell Engineering. Programs were not proprietary, different chips could be exchanged and Howell was Great to work with !
Their next ECM venture (as I recall, and it seams that I may be missing one in this time frame) was with a gentleman - Doug Dorge in Calif. He was using the GM MEFI (Marine EFI) ECM, same as MerCruiser used in that time era, reprogramming it to fit our factory's needs. And again for Holley TBI. This is when BH's proprietary programming began, because of other rising V-8 competition.
The current program that we are running now, was initially built by (I think) Technical Services out of Syracuse, NY. They are a big company designing and programming complete EFI ECM systems, for everything from OEM lawn equipment to motorcycle and auto manufactures. The factory paid big bucks for this current program, and again Boss Hoss wants to keep it proprietary for all the right and same reasons. Here though, is where issues must have really began to go array with our current ECM : Boss Hoss had / has this current paid for program downloaded into their GM Tech-2 scanner there at the factory. They then download said current program into our GM E-67 ECMs. Now here is where I am most sketchy and JMHO follows : The program from Technical Services was fine, but over time and in untrained non-qualified factory's hands, program criteria tweaks were made through their GM Tech-2 and that is why we are experiencing run ability issues today!
But as stated in my OP, Doug and factory never gave up, it's all part of growing and customer service !
Now Ricky & Co. are using their new tuner, in LK. Havasu, AZ. with Brian Macy @ EngineLabs.
I am very confidant that Ricky knows the importance of a "correct" program, more than anyone ! So this will be very exciting times for us E-67 version ECM owners, YAY !! Sorry for this long winded iteration, I don't post that often, but hell I'm retired now, LOL Craig H.

[craig haymaker]

We love the Scottsdale area, and especially Cave Creek !
In fact, we will be in Cave Creek (Sonoran Villas) for a bit in May, trailering our trike down. I would love to buy you a drink at the Hideaway or Road House ! Those places are hopping right now with AZ. bike week, been to that event twice. We love the cool weather in May there, LOL ! Craig

[knockdolian]

How glad am I, i bought an old one with a carb !!

[craig haymaker]

How glad am I, i bought an old one with a carb !!

Ya just rub it in OK. Think of all the "bike bonding" that you are missing, BOOORING, LOL Craig

[TXscooterguy]

They then download said current program into our GM E-67 ECMs.

Craig, do you know the GM part number for the specific ECM used in my 2015 Coupe? I looked on eBay and there seems to be several part numbers for E-67 ECMs. My thought was when the exchange program rolls out, I wouldn't have to take the trike out of service if I have a second ECM that could be sent in. After the new ECM is installed, I could make my original unit available to another Boss Hoss owner that wants to avoid down time. Thanks. Dennis

[Tx Outlaw]

My thought was when the exchange program rolls out, I wouldn't have to take the trike out of service if I have a second ECM that could be sent in. After the new ECM is installed, I could make my original unit available to another Boss Hoss owner that wants to avoid down time. Thanks. Dennis

Buy a second ECM to send in and no down time? Guess you figure you already lost "BH Death Race 2016".........

[TXscooterguy]

Buy a second ECM to send in and no down time? Guess you figure you already lost "BH Death Race 2016".........

Belt AND suspenders my friend.

[arizona outlaw]

The factory will probably charge you a grand to exchange the ECM. just get one from a auto wrecker for a trail blazer and get it programed by someone. You know the factory will lock it again. Every time you want to make a change to your bike or trike your Fucked. Don't get caught up in their game. These ECMs should not be locked so you can get anyone to tune them anytime anywhere. Your engine light comes on your road trip, where you going to go?? Its nice to pull into any GM dealership and get it fixed instead of looking for a BH dealer.. Just saying!!

[Carl La Fong]

Your mission here seems to be to piss off Ricky. Why don't you step off? All you can do is shoot off your big mouth and dis a guy who is trying to build a better product and help those who bought a bad product. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, the first time. Now I'm sure you're an asshole

[SQ4MN]

I would see what the factory wants for an exchange and whats involved. If its the best way to go I would go with it, Ricky is fussy and he knows whats needed so it will probably be a good upgrade when they finally release it. If it was my trike and a Trailblazer unit was indeed the fix I would probably settle for it even if it wasn't as good as the factory just because its easily available and I guess easily programmed. I been hearing about the problems for years and always wondered why there is any, the engine works fine in a car so if the car stuff is used the engine should work fine in the trike. There must be more to it than my explanation or someone would have solved the problem a long time ago. My trike had a carb when I owned it as do both my V8 bikes and I never have any problem. I guess the computer stuff is needed to meet EPA rules.

[Grand Canard]

The factory will probably charge you a grand to exchange the ECM. just get one from a auto wrecker for a trail blazer and get it programed by someone. You know the factory will lock it again. Every time you want to make a change to your bike or trike your Fucked. Don't get caught up in their game. These ECMs should not be locked so you can get anyone to tune them anytime anywhere. Your engine light comes on your road trip, where you going to go?? Its nice to pull into any GM dealership and get it fixed instead of looking for a BH dealer.. Just saying!!

Some people.............some people are just DICKS, they can't help it no matter how hard they try, it's rooted deep in their DNA/ genetics to be a DICK, and that is all they will ever be, JUST A DICK.
To the rest of you, I'd advise that you DON'T LISTEN TO the DICK.

[2crzy]

WOW problems with ECU, Problems with people. lol
My question is: When you re tune these ECUs at the factory for exchange, Are they going back to the stock LS-3 settings as they would be from GM? Are they going to be locked again, if they are back to a stock setting? There is a lot of people with BH bikes that don't live anywhere near a dealer for service if they have problems. GM doesn't lock there ECUs so you can get them serviced anywhere. I had this problem myself a few years ago.

[craig haymaker]

Please understand here, that I am not directing my thoughts towards anyone, if that were my intention, I'll point a finger ! This is just Craigies thoughts and feelings out loud : If Boss Hoss could simply put in an ECM with an auto tune AND BE HAPPY, then why have they repeatedly went out and spent tens of thousands of $ to find that "perfect program"?? IMHO, a 430-525 HP. V-8 car motor (engine) behaves a whole lot differently in 1-1/2 - 2=ton four wheeled vehicle, than it does in a1100-1500 lb. two or three wheeled motorcycle. BTW, the factory has never "de-tuned" any of their programs, for safety of otherwise. Hell the simple challenging differences besides the obvious weight, are space restrictions limiting sensor(s) placement locations, inlet air tract and exhaust design, and on and on, while still getting the performance and having to meet EPA & CARB.
A "perfect tune" has to take those and more into it's parameter considerations.
Ok, so now BH find this new tuner, spends thousands more, and this time Mr. Ricky & Co. are happy with it's results !! Why in the world would they then allow everyone including competitors and mothers, to have said program for free ? There is a hell of a big difference between GM or Ford's ECM programming being able to be accessed, as compared to the still "mom & pop" business of Boss Hoss. Hell Ford could give a shit about GM's ECM programming, But I wonder who would "give a shit" about Boss Hoss's programming !
Boss Hoss can't stay in business spending $ without a + return, same as any other company. But BH will feel the loss much faster than a mega manuf.
BH only stays in busness if they sell, and we are family, so keep buying, LOL! Craig

[TXscooterguy]

Boss Hoss can't stay in business spending $ without a + return

Hear, hear! We are not all socialists here, right?

My earlier Harleys had Bendix, S&S Super B, Mikuni HSR40 and Harley CV carbs on them. I could fiddle with them until the bike ran the way I wanted it to run. Then came EFI and my screwdriver was useless. Now I had to pay my dealer to dyno tune my bike. I traded my hard earned bucks for the dealer's time, knowledge and equipment. The end result was the bike ran much better.

I don't see the Boss Hoss model being any different. If you want something better than the stock tune that came with your vehicle, you pay for it. Unless Brian is a philanthropist, Rick is going to spend money to make these tunes available. Maybe you believe that you're "entitled" to free tuning updates for life, but I never saw that clause in my sales contract.

[Orlando606VetteTrike]

^ What he said^

[arizona outlaw]

Your mission here seems to be to piss off Ricky. Why don't you step off? All you can do is shoot off your big mouth and dis a guy who is trying to build a better product and help those who bought a bad product. I was willing to give you the benefit of the doubt, the first time. Now I'm sure you're an asshole

Carl,
I am not on a mission to piss Ricky off. But it looks like I do a great job pissing you off. Or maybe it was to early for you and your meds never kicked in. You guys are so uptight on here. The previous owners of BH did things a little differently obviously. They spent a lot of money to keep things tight between all the dealers to do all the servicing on all the bikes that people have purchased. I get that. Charge people to plug the ECM in and tune it when someone wants something changed on there engine. Every business will charge something for that. What I don't get is, why put a bad tune in a new bike or trike from the factory and then up charge to fix it? Put a decent tune in from new like any manufacture does and if the customer wants to put a cam or what have you for a little more HP than re tune it to that spec. Its staring to sound like HD. Purchase the bike and then spend thousands to increase the power. WTF?
Its amazing that you can purchase a Jap bike and ride it without spending another dime on tuning. I hope Ricky does some positive changes to the product and keeps BH alive. But you cant nickel and dime the public for everything like HD does.

I am looking forward on meeting Ricky at Arizona Bike Week.
Hope your there as well Carl.

Oh Ricky my name is Ken not DICK!!

[Carl La Fong]

OK, Ken or Dick or whoever you are. It's 4PM and my meds have kicked in. Here is why I'm pretty sure you're an asshole. You sit behind your keyboard and make wild assumptions about Rick and the new BH. You stated that he will probably charge a grand to reflash your ECM. Did you get that figure from BH or did you pull it out of your ass? One thing I can guarantee, he will charge YOU a grand, maybe more. Good thing you have the Trailblazer units to fall back on. Why is Rick responsible for mistakes made by the former owners? He is stepping up to the plate and trying to solve the problems that were dropped in his lap. He has found someone to build transmissions. That is huge. He is working to sort out the FI glitches. That is pretty huge, as well. Do you really think that this is a hobby for him? Maybe he should send you a free ECM and a stripper to install it for you and service you afterwards. Maybe he should hand out new Nescos, as party favors. Every one of your posts casts BH and Rick in a negative light.
And you have the balls to say I'm uptight
Pot, Kettle, Black

[Tx Outlaw]

Maybe he should send you a free ECM and a stripper to install it for you and service you afterwards.

Wow! Talk about a happy ending! Just let me know when I should expect to receive said delivery so I can make sure the wife is busy.......
Every HD I purchased since '04 were FI, so I have no issue paying for a decent tune. I very much appreciate Rick working on this issue for us!

[TXscooterguy]

So I guess I should be sure I'm wearing clean BVDs when the ECM is delivered, huh?

[SRF]

The people upset about fuel injection and ecms should be upset at the government not Boss Hoss. Locking an ecm is an emissions requirement I doubt Boss Hoss chose to complicate things. Factory updates within a certain period of time from when manufactured could potentially cost a penalty on Boss Hoss. I don't know what specifics they have to comply with but it is getting tougher all the time. I really doubt the ecms are locked down anymore than any other manufacturer there is just less companies marketing what it takes to modify them. I believe I have heard of a couple states where vehicles that have been found to have modified calibrations get red flagged and can no longer be licensed. I am mixing automobile laws with motorcycle laws in what I am saying but if they don't have the same regulations they keep getting closer to it. There may still be some loopholes for Boss Hoss because of the smaller number of production. I am very excited to see all the things Ricky is doing for the company!

Shane

[SQ4MN]

The people upset about fuel injection and ecms should be upset at the government not Boss Hoss. Locking an ecm is an emissions requirement I doubt Boss Hoss chose to complicate things. Factory updates within a certain period of time from when manufactured could potentially cost a penalty on Boss Hoss. I don't know what specifics they have to comply with but it is getting tougher all the time. I really doubt the ecms are locked down anymore than any other manufacturer there is just less companies marketing what it takes to modify them. I believe I have heard of a couple states where vehicles that have been found to have modified calibrations get red flagged and can no longer be licensed. I am mixing automobile laws with motorcycle laws in what I am saying but if they don't have the same regulations they keep getting closer to it. There may still be some loopholes for Boss Hoss because of the smaller number of production. I am very excited to see all the things Ricky is doing for the company!

Shane

Agree and I do blame the government. I don't really think the ARIZONA guy is as bad as some including Ricky think he is but if I ever meet him I'll be able to get a more accurate opinion. I do know that if Ricky wants to stay in business he will have to charge dollars for everything. The Arizona guy doesn't have a clue what the actual charges will be or anything else about the fix. Ricky will let everyone know at some point and at least he let it be known that he's aware of the problem and intends to do something about it.

[Grand Canard]

I really want to remain engaged with our customers and the V8 family by use of this forum, but……………………………………………………………..

I don’t have any tolerance for second-best or mediocrity; I also don’t have any tolerance for DICKS.

First-off, “The Factory” never locked a damn thing except our doors at night. The ECM’s were locked by the firms that programmed and created the tunes for BH and they refused to provide BH or Brian Macy the key to un-lock because they owned the software that BH paid hundreds of thousands for. (I ended a sentence with a preposition; I don’t care)

Second-off, I told you’ll that BH would “fix it” and that BH would be soon creating a ECM exchange program; that’s going to happen, and it’s going to happen soon, in matter of weeks. If soon is not soon enough for you, take “Ken the Dick’s” advice and go to a damn junkyard, find an old crashed Trailblazer and plug that POS ECM into your harness, good luck!

Third, the ECM exchange cost will be minimal aimed merely at recovering BH’s cost plus shipping and handling, etc. estimated $200-300.

Fourth, the exchange ECM tunes will be locked; BH will not be held responsible for engines after unauthorized changes made to ECM program; if your bike is not under warranty and you sign a release, BH will unlock your ECM free of charge. The tune will be locked, not the ECM. On a locked ECM, anyone with a HP tuner will be able to see and clear faults, perform diagnostics, etc; you just will not be able to modify the tune.

As before, I am always happy to meet you’ll (except “Ken the DICK”, although that’s not your real name; I’ll smash your fucking face and then fucking strangle you if we ever meet) and hear your jokes and funny stories, your problems, your compliments, your suggestions; all in, I consider myself a reasonable man and a good guy, sometimes violent, blood does makes the grass grow greener, but I will NOT bullshit you or damn lie, unlike “Ken the Dick”.

Most of you on V8bikers forum are good, righteous dudes and babes and will not take offense as you wouldn’t hang around “Ken the Dick” anyway nor have “Ken the Dick” over for dinner; unless it was for a "special" spaghetti dinner in your basement with the floor and walls was covered in plastic / visquine and an old rolled-up carpet ready in the garage. The old saying “the customer is always right” is not ALWAYS true; sometimes, although rarely, the customer is no-good, scamming, lying cheat and is out to fuck you, I don’t need nor want business from scoundrels.

I am happy to be part of the V8 family and I am so proud that I / we are able to own and ride our fabulous machines no matter whether you ride a Hoss or Chopper, ride safe.

Rick

[johnny redneck]

Rick, I can't believe you would waist your time addressing Ken Dicks lack of V8 family values. Ken Dick is in titled to his opinion, He is in titled to be WRONG!!! There are always a couple ASS HOLES in the crowd. Ken Dick is flying the flag high.
John