I SWEAR !!!

[2crzy]

Hi Rick
Your saying if the ECM is locked you can still check the diagnostics and clear faults? I'm not sure how you can do that if it's locked. I understand if you lock the tune part then you can't retune. But you still need to trouble shoot some how.

[craig haymaker]

"Boss Hoss can't stay in business spending $ without a + return".

Hear, hear! We are not all socialists here, right?
Maybe you believe that you're "entitled" to free tuning updates for life, but I never saw that clause in my sales contract.

Ok this is beginning to really confuse me right now, so this is Craig speaking back to TXscooterguy LOL.
First off, I can easily get out gunned by other's usage of words, I'm just not that smart, lol. What I thought I was saying in my finial statement (shown here, above), was that Boss Hoss has to and needs to, charge for this new tune, and I (Craig) was more than happy to continue to support them in the future !! For God's sake, why in the world would I be on my 5th. "new" BH, and NOT support them ??
When I started my OP, and also throughout this thread, I repeatedly made it perfectly clear (or so I thought), that I was very appreciative of what Boss Hoss has done for me in the past, and that I would continue to support them !
So please, TXscooterguy, I beg you, PLEASE tell me how you read my statements to base your response as the following :

Hear, hear! We are not all socialists here, right?
Maybe you believe that you're "entitled" to free tuning updates for life, but I never saw that clause in my sales contract.

I apologize to everyone here, especially Ricky, if my statements reflected my opinion as "I want it Free" ?
If I said that, I apologize. Craig

[arizona outlaw]

Ricky

Fourth, the exchange ECM tunes will be locked; BH will not be held responsible for engines after unauthorized changes made to ECM program; if your bike is not under warranty and you sign a release, BH will unlock your ECM free of charge. The tune will be locked, not the ECM. On a locked ECM, anyone with a HP tuner will be able to see and clear faults, perform diagnostics, etc; you just will not be able to modify the tune.

Well I am glad your only going to charge 200-300 for the ECM exchange.
But I don't understand how you can diagnose and clear any faults on a locked ECM?

Isn't a forum set up for people who view their thoughts and ideas different or otherwise? This site feels like its one sided to BH only. I do own one myself and am entitled to my opinions. I think more people on here would express how they feel on a lot of topics about BH but are afraid of the violent come backs from you.

I will meet you in Arizona and am looking forward for you to punch me in the face.
Take care of those anger issues, Bad for business!!

[craig haymaker]

Hi Rick
.Your saying if the ECM is locked you can still check the diagnostics and clear faults? I'm not sure how you can do that if it's locked. I understand if you lock the tune part then you can't retune. But you still need to trouble shoot some how.

Hi "2crzy" and AZ, Craig here. I used to also worry about your very same expressed concerns too ! But as I learned more about EFI in general, it became apparent to me, "that becoming stranded out on the road", from program loss, ain't going to happen !
Yes Sir you can still plug most any scanner, including some Bluetooth scanners (like Blue Driver) into your Diagnostic Link Connector, and read all of the operating information. You can do "everything" except get into the programming to make changes, as it should be to protect Boss Hoss !
O2 signal voltages, MAP, MAF, ECT, PPS, STFT, LTFT, timing, on and on it's all there + more, like a car and fun to see ! Troubleshooting = not a problem, any scanner leads you right through, I promise you. I had a P0332 (KS-2 = knock sensor-right side) code appear on my MIL, come up recently ! Scanner tells me why this code set and where it's located. I go to NAPA, pick up a new DELCO KS and mating plug (recommended), replace, clear code, and away I go ! It's just a GM ECM, with GM based algorithms, but with program tweaks to meet BH's specs. All MIL codes are same as other GM vechicles, which is pretty much standard through the American auto industry. Main BIG difference is, this ECM is on a "Blow-your-mind" friggen 2-3 wheeler !!
And as with any ECM programming, ours has the "limp mode" also> It will still get you down the road if some major sensors fail, doing so by reverting to a Canned preprogrammed map".
And to add to this, I have NEVER found an auto repair shop un-willing to plug-in ! Heck, they are so astounded at this whole LS3 in a bike concept, I've had them want to do it for free, LOL !
All is good with the "locked programming" side of the ECM. The ONLY way that the locked side could ever effect it's owners, is if said locked program has some programming flaws in it ! TaDa - then in walks Sir Ricky.
Also the only other problem that I see here, and I truly hope that it becomes a big problem ?: Is that when Boss Hoss gets it right soon (and Ricky will), the old carb'ed owners are going to be so jealous that BH will have to hire more employees = more overhead, bigger factory - not a good thing, LOL Craig H.

[CanuckHoss]

Arizona Outlaw...

I could be totally wrong but it almost..almost looks like a personal vendetta against Rick and Boss Hoss from your very first post on this Forum..

There has to be "history" or "background" between you two otherwise why all the stuff on here towards him?

Not many come across like you have and I am wondering why?? FYI...No explanation needed. I am good without.

Just standing back observing.

[TXscooterguy]

Rick, I like your style. When we meet the first beer's on me. Dennis

[TXscooterguy]

So please, TXscooterguy, I beg you, PLEASE tell me how you read my statements to base your response as the following :

Hear, hear! We are not all socialists here, right?
Maybe you believe that you're "entitled" to free tuning updates for life, but I never saw that clause in my sales contract.

I apologize to everyone here, especially Ricky, if my statements reflected my opinion as "I want it Free"

Craig, I'm in violent AGREEMENT with you. According to Google, the term "Hear! Hear!" is used to express one's wholehearted agreement, especially with something said in a speech. I don't believe anyone could read your post as "I want it Free." I read your post as quite the opposite, "Rick should get a return on his investment." And in that matter we agree. My comment directed toward those who believe that they should get this free was not directed at you. Sorry if my "comic style" was read as criticism of you but I assure you it was not. We're still friends, Craig, right? Dennis

[craig haymaker]

See, I told you Dennis, I'm pretty stupid,lol. I didn't even understand your hear hear remark ! All is well Sir, my bad and I'm sorry for that, Craig

[petitemoose]

Even at $300 a swap, BH will likely never recover the true expense of the tune. They have shipped a couple units to Brian ( $500 each bike each way ) and a trike as well ( I think ) so add another 800 for that, each way. Right off the bat, $3600 has been spent in shipping alone. that is 12 ecu's just to pay for shipping the bikes to get the tune. That does not take into account the person they are paying to flash the program into the units. Yeah, it only takes 15 minutes or so but he isn't doing it for free.

I don't know what you guys pay your tuners for dyno time but Brian and I talked in Daytona and he was referring to days on the dyno ... not hours and weeks at his shop ... not days. To get a great tune you have to have different temps, riding styles, loads, fuels etc. That won't happen in an 8 hour day. Now put that tune into a trike and start all over again. All of that time is getting paid for. Brian's business, just like ours, does not run on Thank You's.

After we pay $2000+ for parts to make our Hardly's run as well as a 1980 Honda, we then have to pay another $550 for an ECU that mates to the bike, rendering it useless anywhere else, then another $500 in dyno tuning time at the dealership. Is there anyone else that has done this ... or is it just me!?!?

Put it into perspective ... Even if they did charge $1000 per ECU it would be CHEAP! We spend $1500 on a set of headers for 20 hp. $1000 to gain 100 hp is a friggin yard sale bargain!!

IMO ( which means squat ) Ricky is giving the previous owners yet ANOTHER gift just because he is who he is and he thinks how he thinks. To take a shit in his Wheaties is just wrong.

YES, this forum is a free speech zone. However, when you start throwing shit piles at someone that is trying to help us ... it will not go well. We stand up for our own. Ricky was a part of the V8 world LONG before he joined BH so his roots run deep with a lot of people here. When we see comments like those posted, we WILL respond. In like fashion, IF Ricky does something Bass Ackwards, you had better believe his phone will blow up! But it will come from those that know him first.

I wish you a very long and peaceful time as a member of the forum

[2crzy]

Craig
Thanks for explaining the ECM the way you did.
Makes perfect sense and also I understand that it's not cheap to pay someone to spend days tuning the bike programs. I know that first hand myself. I believe in keeping things simple with these new electronics. That's the way to go on any vehicle now a days. $300 is very reasonable for an exchange . Takes a long time to recover any money spent for all the R and D.

[CanuckHoss]

We sell Stage "1" s for a Harley...Slip-ons are at least $400 to $500, add a K&N Cleaner at $75...then add the Thundermax tuner at $900...some labour and every Harley owner spends at least $1,500 on a Stage "1"...so it would IMPLODE...and they are fucking HAPPY to spend it...go figure we want free shit for V8's....

[Tx Outlaw]

I just want the hard-bodied female stripper delivery person of the new ECM.........

[SQ4MN]

I figure Rick has lots of experience with the computer stuff from the different bikes he's been building for about the last nine or ten years. He won't be satisfied till its right so all you guys with the modern stuff will be thrilled. Us guys with the carbs will be nothing more than some old geezer to ask about things like "vapor lock" or "Holley Red" or a guy they called "Carb Mike".

[TXscooterguy]

IMO ( which means squat ) Ricky is giving the previous owners yet ANOTHER gift just because he is who he is and he thinks how he thinks. To take a shit in his Wheaties is just wrong.

Well, there's another breakfast cereal off my shopping list.