Holiday Topic - Car Tire Vs. Bike Tire

[Els]

I'm going to risk posting here at the expense of some guys who will take some big shots at me. I've rode both on various Boss Hoss bikes and come to the conclusion that the only good reason to use a car tire is because they're cheap. The bike rides like shit with them...period.

Anyone using something like a 245 on the back of a V8 bike may get a little better ride that a 265 or bigger but the tire looks like it belongs on a bicycle instead of a V8 motorcycle. Especially with a big ass rear fender so there's a huge amount of space between the fender and tire. Sorry guys, looks like shit.

For the tire shredders who live to do burnouts, I would use a cheap car tire too. The last couple of 300's I've put on, both Metzler and Avon, required a bank loan.

The reality here may lie in what people primarily do with these bikes. If you drive bar-to-bar in the flat lands and do smokies a bunch, the car tire may be the way to go. If you live where I do in the twisty, curvy mountains and are looking for high quality ride characteristics, no car tire will do worth a damn. I think the very smart engineers with all the bike companies, foreign and domestic, have applied a bike tire for the bike for good reasons. I've never been on one V8 bike with a car tire that has a ride quality I'm comfortable or happy with.

Elliot

[Ric]

I'll join in. I recently used a Faulken tire on the back 245. It looked good in the '06 rounded fender, but it didn't last very long. Only one standing burnout at Sturgis. Another thing I don't care for is any speed over 200 kmh it felt 'washy' on the back end. The bike seemed to rock side to side like a train car. It didn't do that with the old Avon bike tire.

The cost diff:

Car tire: $95.00 Cdn
Bike tire: $450.00 Cdn.

I live on the straight Highways... the twisties are about six hours away. But I ALWAYS ride to the mountains a couple of times a year. My buddy Dave Taylor sometimes rides behind me... and the way the side wall 'warps' as I go around a tighter corner, makes him cringe when he sees it. I can't feel that... infact, in the rain, the car tire handled better in the twisties than the Avon tire did.


But, I think I'm going back to the bike tire. Do less stationary burnouts... stick to rolling burnouts like the rest of us do.

One thing I don't like about the Avon tire is... those 'pill shaped' dimples down the center part of the tread... don't flush rain water out like a constant groove does. I always felt that the back end was going to slip out from under me in a turn on wet roads.

[Els]

The last thing I want to do is turn this thread into a Ford vs Chevy thing, however, I'll never darken my garage with the Avon name again. It is a piece of shit plain and simple.

There is a definite design change between the old Avon Venom and the new Avon Cobra. The new tire is much more rounded for lack of a better description. the older Venom was flatter having a much broader contact patch. The new Cobra has a much smaller contact patch based on the same tire size.

Avon's quality control sucks. I personally believe the tire is neither made for big speeds or big weight. My chopper weighs appx 400 lbs less than a big block Boss Hoss. I would fear for my life running the Cobra on a 502 BH.

I am currently using a Metzler 300. It is not quite as quick in the corners as the Avon but it is a much better compound, much better looking, much bigger contact patch. All this comparing apples to apples using a 300 in both applications. Most important...all the Metzlers I've ever used were truly round. If you're lucky, one in three Avon's will be round.

I'll await some tire pros like Steve to tell me I'm full of shit but even then, I'm done with Avon.


Els

[Ric]

Most of the homework I've done so far Els... there aren't many 230/15 bike tire options out there... and I'm not about to convert my swing-arm and fender assy... to accomodate a 300 tire.


Unless there are others that know of a 230 or 240 / 15 bike tire out there.

How about Metzler?

[Els]

Ric,

I'm unsure whether there's a 230/15 application by Metzler or not as I don't use that size. I'm willing to bet there may be because of Metzler doing so much with other big bike tires like Honda Goldwing and BMW's.

I had a bad problem with an Avon and visited some tire experts who examined it closely and then we compared it side by side with the Metzler counterpart. It was very apparent that the Metzler was a higher quality product. There was a big difference in the compound with the Avon being a much softer compound.

A number of years ago, Mike Kelly took on Avon tires to his product line to help a large group of his buds and customers (myself included) out because we were shredding Avon's left and right. We too were using a stock application on our Bosses of the 230 rear and I forgot the size up front. In any case, he would take brand new Avon's and put them on one of his low speed balancers and we would laugh our balls off. They looked like they were oblong instead of round. The amount of lead it would take to balance those pieces of crap were equal to the weight of a bowling ball.

That combined with my last experience using the new Avon Cobra and it's time to not consider them again unless there's a remarkable overhaul to their design, construction, and quality control issues.

I'm now expecting a barrage of replies of how great their Avon's are. Kind of reminds me of the Nesco thing.

Els

[Ric]

I ran Avon's on my old shovel, for about 30 years with no real problems. Although that old shovel rarely saw anything higher than 80 mph.

I think I can go as high as a 245 under my fender... so I'll scan the net and tire shops to see what's available.

I think you might be right about inviting a bombardment of "Pro-Avon" tire users. We tend to be like sheep... Just like the Ford - Chev - Dodge arguements.

[SQ4MN]

I am going to keep running the AVON until I hear of a bike tire that will fit the Boss Hoss and be better. I ride in mountains and freeways. The weight of these bikes makes them want to wash out easier than a lighter bike on twisty roads plus the fact that you can't correct in a turn easily makes me want a tire designed to lean in the curves. Car tires are not designed to lean and they won't work as good as a tire that is designed to lean. It hardly ever rains in the Las Vegs area and if I get into some while traveling I try to stay in it as short a time as possible. I got caught in hard rain last year in the mountains going to Flagstaff Arizona and the Avon seemed fine to me. I always ran METZLERS on my Harley FXLR as they stuck good in the turns and gave decent mileage. If METZLER made a tire that mounts on a Boss Hoss rear wheel and is the same size as the stock one I would buy it. Dave

[gaston 2005 502]

The weight of these bikes makes them want to wash out easier than a lighter bike on twisty roads plus the fact that you can't correct in a turn easily makes me want a tire designed to lean in the curves. Car tires are not designed to lean and they won't work as good as a tire that is designed to lean. It hardly ever rains in the Las Vegs area and if I get into some while traveling I try to stay in it as short a time as possible. Dave

Dave,

Car tire here, 245/35/18 Sumitomo, before with the motorcycle tire, corners were not that good, went to a car tire, about the same.
the difference was when i went to 400lb springs. bike will corner now, not a sport bike obviously, but will match my Hardley fatboy. they sure made a heck of a difference. 210lbs + bike weight,,alot of difference or even riding two up.

Darryl

[Steve Taylor]

Els, you can only speak as you find and use the tyre(s) that you find suit your needs.
The tyre experience I have is with bikes half the weight of the V8s and until the Cobra was released by Avon, the Metzeler 300 was the better riding tyre. The new Cobra 300 corners like a 200 and works well on my (girls) 302
I believe that Avon have a bhp limit on their tyres, so most V8 owners exceed this! Don't know about the Metzeler. The tyre manufacturers must cringe at the weight/bhp/burnouts that their products encounter

[Els]

Els, you can only speak as you find and use the tyre(s) that you find suit your needs.
The tyre experience I have is with bikes half the weight of the V8s and until the Cobra was released by Avon, the Metzeler 300 was the better riding tyre. The new Cobra 300 corners like a 200 and works well on my (girls) 302
I believe that Avon have a bhp limit on their tyres, so most V8 owners exceed this! Don't know about the Metzeler. The tyre manufacturers must cringe at the weight/bhp/burnouts that their products encounter

Steve, my experience with the new 300 Cobra was a bit frustrating and ended with it coming apart. I'm considering it the result of what Avon would consider utilization exceeding design limits.

Changing from a mostly worn out Venon to the Cobra itself was a huge difference. My chopper would quit spinning the tire at WOT application around 55 mph (no nitrous) depending on road type and temp with the Venom. Never beyond 60 mph. I put on the new Cobra, inflated it at a lower than recommended rating (28 lbs), and was unable to hook up out of the hole or at WOT applications across the board. While screwing around with Tommy in Oklahoma, I was roasting the tire while spraying at 100 mph. I couldn't believe it. 80 mph with no nitrous...it starts spinning. Out of the hole, it spun constantly. I again lowered the pressure with no relief.

When we examined it relative to the old tire and against another chopper with a Venom, it was obvious why. The new Cobra was MUCH more rounded and had a much smaller contact patch as a result. It sucked for street drag racing or wanting to hook up at high throttle applications, however, it was beautiful once I got in back to the NC mountain. Handled so much faster and smoother than the old Venom it was unreal. I went from being bummed to being very pleased...until the miserable bitch separated on me. Belts went to shit and it got all misshapen. Trash at that point.

The ME880 I replaced it with, in spite of a harder compound, hooked up great and had a very smooth, reliable feeling ride...but it was not as fast in the twisties as the Cobra. It had a much wider contact patch and I suspect better braking qualities. Ultimately, we have to have a tire that is safe and reliable.

I believe you are right on the money with comments about weight and HP. That's why I referenced earlier that I would have a big concern using the Cobra on a Boss Hoss because of the weight differential with the chopper.

Elliot

[SQ4MN]

Darryl, I also found my bike cornered way better after I installed the air ride. It now corners at least as good as any Harley dresser. I never tried changing the spring rates in my stock shocks but I have heard others say they had the same results you did and they were happy. Dave