DAYTONA BIKE WEEK '09

[Els]

How can you tell if it's winter?.....Guys start talking about Bike Week 3 months (100 days) in advance! Here in the mountains of NC we just got 5" of snow and it's been in the mid teens for days. I took the V8Chopper down to Ft. Myers a few weeks ago and just finished a nice 70 degree ride with some buds while there. Anyhow....

A few guys had asked me about Daytona this Spring and when I was going. Had to check with my hotel/condo guru, Dr/Mr/Professor Steve Barr who told me our dates at the Tropic Shores are Saturday February 28th - Saturday March 7th. Looking forward to seeing a number of Rebel V8Bikers.net members there and thought I'd start a thread to help some of us cold weather dwellers to get some winter relief looking forward to it.

Anyone planning on Daytona, let us know via this thread when and where you'll be there. Having heard from some guys who were there for Biketoberfest, crowds and traffic were WAY down and it sounded like it made for a much better time. No waiting in restaurants and easier to get around on the usual heavy traffic roads. Hopefully the same will happen this Spring. Looking forward to seeing you guys...


Elliot

[Redtro]

Oh yes!! I'll be there, but not sure of the exact dates yet. I'll be looking for all you guys.

[Bryan]

Jennifer and I will check into the Tropic Shores once again from Feb 21 thru March 7. The plan is to ship my bike this time and have some fun. I'll have my work cut out for me getting the bike ready in time with a big cam bearing problem in the engine at the moment. Some days I think things like this happen just to test my temper, but I'm not mad yet We'll see how mad I get once I have it all apart. 100 days??? I guess I better get at it soon..............

Bryan

[Els]

Bryan,

I heard about your mishap. That sucks but you've got plenty of time before Daytona. Pulling it apart may give you some other "opportunities" as far as performance .

I think you got some of the stroker guys worried. There's no need as these small block stroker motors have been kicking ass at the track in much heavier hardware for years with no problems. The V8 world we live in...shit breaks.

I forgot you stay at T.S. in Daytona. Look forward to seeing you in the elevator and parking lot not to mention riding! Good luck with the Boss and keep us tuned in to your progress. Remember, pictures pictures pictures.

Elliot

[NcChopper]

Looks like I'll be there most of the week. Look forward to it.

Chris

[Els]

Chris,

Looks like our good rides up here (NC) will have to wait 'til after Daytona. Got the chopper in FL until then.

I tried to email you a bit ago but your server kicked it back. I'll try again. Got the pics of J and they're awesome.

Elliot

[hogv8]

I'll be there for sure 3 weeks . Can't wait .


All new inverted forks , new handlebars , switches , switch housings and master cylinder , grips , tach and shift lite , tire , rotors , brake pads and brake lines all brand new along with a few other goodies . I also had my paint freshened up to like new . Now all I've got to do is put it all together . Also bought a new V nosed trailer to haul to Daytona . See ya there .

Jack
HOGV8

[Els]

Jack, you go with the buffalo style drag bars again? I remember those were the last I put on Big Red and I loved them.

I bought a 10' V-nose (about 11' overall) and it's great to haul. I was just talking to Steve about parking at the T.S. and I may use the trailer as a garage. There's a house just beyond the lot across the street where he parks his big trailer and is real accessible.

Three weeks, wow, that's probably great medicine after upstate NY winters! If you guys want to take a side trip while there and right before Daytona begins, we'll be down south in Ft. Myers and probably taking a trip to South Beach (Miami) and the Keys for a few days. You're welcome to join.

Elliot

[hogv8]

Elliot , yes . I am installing a new set of Buffalo Drag bars . I love them also . I fabricated a adjustable throttle linkage connection at the carb. which allows me to adjust the throttle cable connection pivot point to maintain a quarter turn throttle at the throttle grip . I had a quarter turn throttle on my bike previously but as you know they were kinda big and crudely made . This new set up allows me to use a set of late model Harley handlebar controls , switch housings , and switches . My old handlebar switches had seen better days . They were Custom chrome junk I think .

I'll keep the side trip in mind but we have friends from up here that are going to be there the same times as we are so we do have some plans already made .

My new Hallmark trailer is kinda unique because it is a 8' V nose , ( 10' with the V ) X only 5' wide X 6' 6" tall , ramp rear door . I ordered it with all heavy duty suspension , frame and electric brakes . It looks odd because it's so short , so narrow but tall . Ugly as hell but I think it will work and tow well . Definitely won't win in a trailer beauty contest .

Jack

[Butkicker5]

Hey Guy's ! , I am planning on going to Daytona this year , never made it before so all is new to me , Do you have any info on hotel ? phone number ? places to see ? Will be bringing my Boss and wife's VTX along by Trailer Hope to meet up with you all and have some good times

[Els]

There is an endless supply of places to stay. You may want to consider whether it's important to be on the beach or if you want to be closer to somewhere like the speedway, etc. If you do stay on the beach or anywhere for that matter, you may want to check parking availabilities. Some places on the beach have covered or underground parking which is great as you'll avoid any chance of salt spray. Some places have outdoor designated areas for the bikes (like the Tropic Shores where a number of folks stay) and bike wash amenities and security. You may also want to check if it is a hassle to keep a trailer where you want to stay. Some it's first come/first serve with trailer parking and it could leave you parking somewhere far off or at a high price.

If it's like this past Biketoberfest, traffic is down and there will be plenty of rooms and perhaps even better prices than usual. I'd do something in advance because I remember some of the rat holes in the old days when we would just show up and take our chances last minute. Give it plenty of thought too as some of the single story places putting you on the ground floor right outside the parking lot can cost you some sleep when some guys get a bit sauced and try doing Harley burnouts in the parking lots at 2:00a.m.

As far as "places to see", there are a few decent rides up the beach toward St. Augustine or south to New Smyrna, or along the river (intercoastal) but the riding isn't that scenic for the most part. You may want to tune in to wherever some of the V8 guys will be doing some group rides. It's usually a good ride to a good restaurant. Be sure to come to the V8Chopper trailer as a lot of guys meet and hang out there...like me.

Els

[NcChopper]

Els,

Sorry for the late reply. Look forward to some mountain riding in the spring.

Chris

[Butkicker5]

Thanks Els for the advice , do you have phone number for Tropic shores , ? I hope to hang out with other V8 riders and learn more of the area and see more of these fun Rides , and hope to meet some of the ones i continue to get help from on this site thanks again !

[Els]

Thanks Els for the advice , do you have phone number for Tropic shores , ? I hope to hang out with other V8 riders and learn more of the area and see more of these fun Rides , and hope to meet some of the ones i continue to get help from on this site thanks again !

BK, I'm going to ask Steve B. or Jack D. to jump in here as they're owners there and in the know. I'm just lucky enough to be a guest. I'm sure one of them will put the number up here. If not, I'll give them a jingle and get it for you. It's a very nice place. Only complaint I have is the bike parking is outdoors and sometimes a bit tight but never a real problem even when Bike Week is going full bore and very crowded. I really like being at the beach and enjoy being able to ride more than 10 minutes to/from Tropic Shores to where I usually hang. Hope to see you there...

Elliot

[hogv8]

Here's where I own several timeshares http://www.tropicshoresresort.com . Mine are all booked for bike week by other Boss Hoss owners but if you call they may still have vacancies . There are several other V8 owners staying here . Nice place .

Jack

[Bryan]

Bryan,

I heard about your mishap. That sucks but you've got plenty of time before Daytona. Pulling it apart may give you some other "opportunities" as far as performance .

I think you got some of the stroker guys worried. There's no need as these small block stroker motors have been kicking ass at the track in much heavier hardware for years with no problems. The V8 world we live in...shit breaks.

I forgot you stay at T.S. in Daytona. Look forward to seeing you in the elevator and parking lot not to mention riding! Good luck with the Boss and keep us tuned in to your progress. Remember, pictures pictures pictures.

Elliot

Elliot,

I don't think the stroker guys need to worry very much either as I think the whole concept of these 383 strokers is quite sound. So far I haven't pulled the motor out of the bike but I will finally get to it this weekend. Then we can pull it completely apart and do a proper autopsy. One thing we discovered when we pulled the main bearing caps off is that some of the ARP studs were loose in the block even though the nuts still had full torque on them when I removed them. I don't recall the installation specs at this point but I think they are supposed to be loctited (red) into the block and torqued to spec. We'll see and I'll report back here once I know something. And yes, it will certainly be running just great for Daytona. I just had Carb Mike do the Stage II thing to it so that will be fun as well

Bryan

[Els]

Bryan,

I responded to another thread about the motor and Daytona before I had looked here. Now that I live in the frigid north (not by your standards though), I can see how some of these mishaps turn into projects and are actually a good thing. Getting everything all tidied up prior to the kickoff of good weather (Daytona perhaps?) isn't all bad. Better to be wrenching with snow on the ground than 70 degree temps.

Especially for us types that are reading challenged and enjoy seeing the pictures, please snap some of your tear down and fix. I'm sure your bike will be slinging snot by Daytona. Good luck and regards,


Elliot

[Els]

Elliot,

I don't think the stroker guys need to worry very much either as I think the whole concept of these 383 strokers is quite sound. So far I haven't pulled the motor out of the bike but I will finally get to it this weekend. Then we can pull it completely apart and do a proper autopsy. One thing we discovered when we pulled the main bearing caps off is that some of the ARP studs were loose in the block even though the nuts still had full torque on them when I removed them. I don't recall the installation specs at this point but I think they are supposed to be loctited (red) into the block and torqued to spec. We'll see and I'll report back here once I know something. And yes, it will certainly be running just great for Daytona. I just had Carb Mike do the Stage II thing to it so that will be fun as well

Bryan[/quote]




Hey Bryan,

With the site having been down, haven't heard anything about your stroker motor. Anything up

Jack, how many days/hours/minutes 'til you head to Daytona

I'm pretty psyched to unleash my "winter project" at Daytona this year. Makes me think of Robert Duval, a Colonel with the 1st Air Cav in the movie "Apocalypse Now". His trademark line; "I love the smell of napalm in the morning" will be my new line except I'll be substituting napalm with nitrous. Got to do something to stay on the porch with the David, Mike and Gary types.

Els


Elliot

[hogv8]

Elliot , now that Deer season is over I've been working on getting my new front end squared around along with a few other modifications . I'm sick of snow already and after the holidays I will be starting the Daytona countdown . Really looking forward to it .

Jack

[Bryan]

Sorry Gents, been busy with work etc. and not much time to play here.

I got the engine pulled out and apart. The front cam bearing was missing and laying in the pan all chewed up and in 3 peices, along with a whole lot of metal that went into the filter and through the main bearings. Fortunately the crankshaft is OK but I sent it to the engine shop to get it polished up a bit. The camshaft is toast, bent from not having any bearing support at the front, by 4 thou. I'll run the same cam again so everything like the lifters, pushrods, rockers and the beehive springs match up. The cam I use is a Comp Cam # 08-306-8 by the way if you want to look up the specs. It makes her into a pretty good bottom end torque monster. This cam also works well with computer controlled motors as you will see. The new cam will be here on Thursday this week. I'll bring the block to the engine shop and get them to press in a new set of cam bearings and fit the new cam at the same time. Then I'll bring it all home and start puuting it back together. I'm not going to do anything to add any more power as it works well the way it is. I know there are speedier bikes out there but this works well for the kind of riding I do.

Once I got the heads off and started looking at things I started getting pissed off. I had hired a local guy to build the motor for me who I've known for years and also came highly recommended as a top notch hot rod engine builder. Anyway he made quite a few mistakes as we discovered, like head gaskets on upside down, ARP studs all loose (mains and head studs) and of course there were numerous head gasket leaks: oil getting into cylinders, oil mixing with coolant, coolant leaking to the outside, just a real mess. And the list goes on. I'll attempt to post a picture or 2 here.

Bryan

[img]attachment=0]Stroker%20Problems%20008.jpg[/attachment

[/img]

[Els]

Bryan, sounds like there was a lot of shit going on. Turning lemons into lemonaide...there's a real level of satisfaction and feel good after something like this happens. The comfort of knowing everything's new or in good shape gives one that warm fuzzy.

If you hadn't had the bearing failure, you probably wouldn't have realized the stud and gasket related problems until something got cooked. Perhaps it was good fortune although the level of damage you had was bad enough.

Thanks for the update and pics and good luck...

Elliot

[Bryan]

Els and Mike,

I hired this guy to build it the last time because I didn't have the time. So now, I am making the time and with the help of my friend Bruce (licenced journeyman heavy duty mechanic) and also one of the wizziest guys I know, we will build it and it will be nothing short of perfect when we are done.

In the picture above I attached you can see there is absolutely no damage to the camshaft jounal where the bearing used to run on. And there is no damage to the block. However as I said it is bent so a new one will go in and this one will become garage art. One thing for sure is this engine would have certainly failed if it had a chain drive for the camshaft. The chain would have piled up and/or the camshaft would have broken.

I have heard 2 different theories as to why the bearing came out. First of all it worked its way inboard and got beaten to death by the rotating crankshaft.

Theory # 1. Since the main studs were not loctited in ( as I have discovered they are supposed to be) , the main bearing caps were actually bouncing a bit against the block. This actually increased the main bearing clearance allowing a slight oil pressure drop. The cam bearing that came out is the very last bearing to receive oil from the pump. He believes the oil pressure drop allowed the bearing to get grabbed slightly and started it on it's journey rearward until it fell out.

Theory # 2. An engine builder at the engine shop figures there should have been harder cam bearings installed in the block because of the Pete Jackson Gear Drive. He claims the upwards loads put on the camshaft and then no loads when the throttle is released quickly caused the bearing to start to fail and eventually get pushed out. I am not sure I buy this theory because the loads exerted by a chain drive setup would be very similar except the chain would be pulling down on the cam and bearing rather than being pushed up. So, what's the difference? However, the engine shop will install the harder bearings he has recommended. Had he known about the Pete Jackson Gear Drive in the beginning he would have installed the hard bearings the first time.

If any of you guys who read these posts have a plausible theory I would sure like to read about it. This is a very rare failure and I want to make sure it doesn't happen again. Thanks.

Bryan

[Els]

Bryan,

Everything I've heard about bearing failures had more to do with either fit (placement) or contaminents. I've never heard or read of a failure due to hardness (or lack thereof) but I'm no expert in that area.

Did the bearing show any sign of any scarring that could have caused it to wear and subsequently move? Considering some of comments you had about studs and gaskets, I'm wondering if your builder pressed the bearings in correctly.

Knowing the cause is sure important to prevent a repeat performance. Sounds like one you will forever speculate about but I wouldn't be too concerned with a new cam and new bearings and careful attention to detail with the install.

My personal 2 cents is the Pete Jackson Gear Drive is somewhat of a waste on these motors especially without being able to hear them because of our noise/exhaust factor. I don't know that your valve spring pressure is high enough to warrant them either. No use getting rid of it since you already have it. I had considered one at one point but because of the above issues and not needing to be too exacting with timing or revving over 7,000 rpm, the timing chain was fine. I've never heard of a gear drive causing any camshaft or bearing failure but again, I'm a light weight in this arena.

Sounds like your going to be in Daytona with a great running small block! Although it's never good to have these kind of problems, it could have been far worse timing wise. See you at the T. Shores!

Elliot

[tjy]

Bryan;

This explains the probs. you found at lacrosse with the fouled plug.

It should be a mean sob when you put it back together...watch out stu..bryan's coming ..heh heh

It will be good to see you in daytona.

tom

[Redtro]

Bryan,

I agree with what Elliot posted. The only way that I can rationalize for the bottom of the engine to cause this problem would have been oil pressure drop and I think you might have noticed that because it would have been significant on your gauge reading. Also, if it was an oil pressure problem, your bearing would have super heated and would have tried to seize. The bearings would be discolored. Are they blue from heat or scared? If both, it may not be possible to tell from looking.

Like Elliot said, it sounds like either the bearing wasn't positioned properly or it failed from a flaw or contaminants. Sometimes a bearing is just bad and it doesn't take much for things to start going south.

Either way, I'm a lightweight as well and there are guys here who are far more qualified to speculate. I'm just weighing in here.