ELECTRICAL PM ON LSx BHs

[craig haymaker]

For us owners of LS-2 & 3 trikes and bikes (I assume), here are some preventive maintenance (PM) tips for the electrical side of things :
Our Bussman fuse block located under the seat and ahead of the battery, has 5 - miniature light duty SPDT stab-lok mounted relays. It has been my experience thus my recommendation; to just replace them as an annual PM task. Your owners manual will show their individual purpose. I had a situation that only high beam headlight would work, and after much checking and tracing, found a failed relay. Which brings me to again complain about the most non-informative, hard to follow and shittiest wiring schematics that I have ever seen ! You know, your typical automotive or motorcycle wiring diagrams, where you can actually follow individual circuits ?? I've asked the factory several times for the real thing, and the response I get every time is, " Duhhhh - we don't have such a thing !!?? Ok, enough ranting lets get back to our task at hand.
While we have the seat off, here is another couple of tips :
1. The #10-GA. wire going from the battery + to the left side of your master solenoid relay's contact post; go to your auto parts house and replace it with a # 8-GA.
2. Your master solenoid relay - my OEM relay was a Ametek # SBC-4201W, with "copper contacts" + internal diode. While copper conducts electrical current great, its is also more susceptible to arc pitting. Your ECM sees and evaluates the output side voltage of this solenoid. Closed pitted contacts will cause a slight unstable VDC signal to your ECM, and as pitting progresses, will throw V. related MIL codes. I suggest replacing with "silver contacts", I used a Ametek # SAS-4202 with an added external diode (the parts store did not have the internal diode one). Ask me how I have learned all of these tricks, LOL ! Craig H.

[Imzz4]

Craig, thats good information on the master relay. I replaced mine but I'm switching to the sas4042 after reading your post. I don't think I need the external diode since my handlebar "run" switch removes power from the relay that turns the ECU on and off.
A friend sent me this link below about wire size and some electrical tests that are simple to do and check your system. I ran #6 from the alternator to a 150a fuse, and #6 to the master relay post, then to the battery +. But as the article suggests, I'll check the voltage drops when its running.
The fuel pump is wired with #12 from the master relay to a 40a relay and #12 into the pump. And 12 again to the Neg term of the battery. That should be plenty .

http://www.superchevy.com/how-to/additi ... our-chevy/

[SQ4MN]

Why does the factory not do this? I am afraid Boss Hoss will never really get it together. At the least a wiring diagram that can easily be read is not something that would be hard to produce if someone cared. If I bought a NEW bike from them I wouldn't take delivery without a proper owners manual with a wiring diagram. There are not many dealers so an owner needs to have this so that any good mechanic can understand the electrical system.
My old Boss Hoss has had the wiring and fuse boxes upgraded by me. It is a carb model with no computer at all but even it has a ton of wires. The new ones have more. It seems I'm always bashing Boss Hoss but I just want them to do what is fair for a guy that spends 50000 dollars or more on a vehicle.

[craig haymaker]

Ditto on that Dave. I can't understand how a wiring schematic for their harness that is capable (and does) scramble the onboard ECM, is so protected? You would think that they would want their "enemies" to get their hands on it, LOL to an endless joke ??
Craig

[hogv8]

Here's a couple of basic Harley wiring diagrams I've had for years . The first I got from Easy Rider Mag Years ago and it has helped me wire several Harleys I've built over the years . The second is another basic diagram that really isn't much different than the way my Boss is wired now with a few exceptions.
I do have a Boss wiring diagram but I refer back to these simple old ones occasionally .

[Paul H]

Jack, you brought back old memories of my
56 Panhead HD that I wired from the same
Easyriders cartoon wiring diagrams. Sure
made a nightmare a whole bunch easier.

Paul H

[Oldun]

I'm pretty sure no one sees your comments above as bashing BH, Dave. I 100% agree with you - a comprehensive service manual and a sound wiring diagram should be a completely standard offering with a new bike - and indeed for after sales service for those buying used. I myself have never understood why they make it so hard have our 'local mechanics' service these bikes especially for people like me who have minimum mechanical ability and (my own doing) no desire or time to learn. I'll say this for Harley, you have to pay extra for the big fat service manuals but they are extremely professionally done. I have no Harley dealer within 2.5 hours drive from my house here, but have a skilled local mechanic who can fix just about anything using their service guides. (He also does my BH servicing, although if a transmission goes I'd probably have to ship the bike to the South Island).

I'm actually posting this from a cafe at an airport far away, and if I thought I could get away with it I would have taken a photo of the wiring at the local hospital. The good news is for ease of maintenance, all wiring is exposed! the not-good news is the fuses in the ER equivalent (very rough equivalent) have been replaced with nails (and in one case, an actual screw...).

[BossHossMan]

A good wiring schematic is crucial to maintaining a vehicle like this. Surely many of us have traced wires for brake lights, alternators, fan switches and other circuits. Like me you probably drew a basic schematic with wire colors and sometimes numbers. Someone must have the software that this information could be entered into in order to create a professional schematic that could be located on this website for everyone's use. Anyone?

If not I will offer to take your basic schematic that are of machines similar to my trike and do what I can to hand draw them into something useful to all of us. I have a 2012 LS3 485hp. If you have some drawings that I might be of able to put into a schematic, send me a p.m. or email me at tj1dj1@charter.net.

I just traced all the wires in my console so I know the colors and which cables and gauges they go into. I have started to put it into a schematic format and will share it when I am have something useful. It is not complete but it is a start.

What a lot of work to recreate something that is sitting there in the Boss Hoss computer easily shareable.

[Imzz4]

Craig, I put a new relay on and it is the genuine Ametek with the silver contacts. I have a question about the temperature of it . Mine is very hot to the touch after a ride. My readings show it around 106 degrees. Is yours that hot ? The other one was hot ,but I never measured it . thanks Jeff

[craig haymaker]

Sorry Jeff, I just now opened this thread again. I would think that because of where your master relay is located, with the engine heat going across it, you are just fine ! You DID get one that was both "continuous duty" rated and has the diode across it's coil right ?

[Imzz4]

Craig , Its continuous duty but there is no diode. When the field of the coil collapses , what issue will it present in my situation ? ( Terminator and MSD). ON my other bike , I had an LED with my gauges to remind me of when I had the reserve tank solenoid on. Every time I switched back to the main fuel tank , the voltage from the relay coil would burn the LED out. I ended up putting a zener diode in there to send that to ground ,and that kept the blue LED alive then.
I'm interested in what you might suggest . thanks Jeff

[craig haymaker]

Hi Jeff, I'm not an electronics x-pert by any means, but a diode is "usually used" across coil loads where electronic circuits are part of the big picture. The Diode "takes" the collapsing energy stored in the relay's coil, helping prevent a destructive V.spike into the system. Even the 5- control relays in my Bussman fuse/relay box, are "freewheeling diode protected".
So Jeff, with the LSx platform BHs and their CANBUS (originally developed for the automotive industry)protocol, It is very important to have a energy absorbing device across every inductor. The CAN nodes are subject to high energy transients, just like inductive load switching, relay noise and ignition switching. This can for sure disrupt the communication protocol between nodes.
If you are running something totally different EFI and communications wise, your probably ok with your philosophy ! Craig
Craig

[craig haymaker]

Please let me make a small but important addition to my OP, relating to the copper contact master solenoid relay.
The only reason that I looked into, then replaced this relay was that my digital voltage readout (in the speedo window) was beginning to read "lower then normal"! I was used to seeing around 14.45 - .52 vdc. But my reading was now dipping into the 13.96 - 14.12 range !
It "ended up" being pitted Mstr. relay contacts, and this was with only 3944 mi. on the copper contacts !

[Imzz4]

Craig, I took another temp measurement on the relay and depending exactly where the red laser was aimed , i could find 126 degrees. It takes a long while to climb to that, but I think I'm gonna try attaching a small finned heat sink to it somehow. Its probably fine and normal, but its bothersome. I also noticed the Blaster 2 (oil filled) remains hot the longest of any component after its shut off. I think that was reading 140. I have an idea I'll clamp a sink around the bottom of that too for good measure. thanks.

[craig haymaker]

Imzz4, here are my thoughts on heat rejection vs protection :
Heat travels from hot to cold. The principal of a "heat sink" is to absorb heat created by a heat producing component, and then dissipate it outward towards a cooler medium. On the other hand, a "heat shield" reflects heat away and isolates a component from absorbing a "source of heat, like an engine.
- So assuming your sol.relay is getting hot from the engine heat = "heat shield".
-Or assuming that your sol.relay's coil is producing more heat than the proximity and air flow of your engine = "heat sink".
IMHO Imzz4, in your case we are currently thinking that we want to reflect heat away not absorb heat, again remember heat always travels from a hotter medium towards a colder medium !
Attachment method will depend on the location of the device you want to protect. But cut out a piece of say thin gage aluminum or stainless steel sheet stock. Form and cut it to the shape needed, I'm thinking that in your master solenoid relay's case, a slight crescent bent shape like this = ). Take some of that 3/32"-1/8" sticky back insulating foam tape and attach to the relay side of your shield. Reposition the heavy gage wire coming off the relay's right output contact post to a straight up or down position. Attach this shield leaving say a1" air gap between the two.
Craig H.

[Imzz4]

I set my other (almost new) 150a relay (w copper contacts) up to a power supply and ran some time/ temp tests measuring current thru the coil ,and voltage across, with no load . Here is what I found.

Hr................Amps................V..................Temp
1:55............. .758...............12.93...............79
2;00............. .673...............13.00...............85
2:10............. .617...............13.05...............103
2:40............. .579...............13:07...............117
4:10............. .568...............13:10...............128

This gives some confidence that the heat I feel when I put my hand on it is normal . I decided to put a heat sink on it and mount it on an aluminum plate as well since I had something to use . And Craig, thanks for your help ! While I was poking around, I shortened the #6 copper wire from the Alt. to the 200a fuse, and the #6 from the master relay, and also to the Blue Seas. Every wire has a voltage drop across it , even the fuse, so the shorter the better.

[craig haymaker]

COOL, that is an I interesting and informative test. Electricity is such a mystical thing to me, lol ! It would also be interesting to see this same test with silver plated contacts!! Craig H.

[Imzz4]

Thats a good idea . I'll set it up as it mounted . The contacts shouldn't make a difference since there's no load. I'll measure the coil resistance of each relay too.

[Imzz4]

How 'cool' ! After 2 hrs and 15 min , the relay with the silver contacts and heat sink measured only 96 degrees. Its coil was 17.3 ohms. The one in the other test was 16.7 ohms. I took a third relay apart to show what's inside one with copper contacts, and it looks like this one was hardly used. I've had others apart where the disk was pitted and burned.
I can put my hand on it anywhere and it only feels warm. So I put the rest of it on the Blaster ll .
hr..............A...............V..............T
1:55......... .896...........12.91........79
2:00......... .785...........12.99........81
2:10......... .752...........13.01........84
2:40......... .734...........13.02........88
4:10......... .729...........13.03........96