Group Buy on LS 485 Tune

[craig haymaker]

Hi Chris, thanks for the update. Your 500 RPM too high sounds to me like one of two different scenarios.
1. You are getting TC Loc in 3ed. with no 4th.
2. You are not getting TC Loc in 4th.
When a program tweak is made to the 07 TBSS engine's ECM, it's done along with the 4L70E trans. TCM, meaning they must be done with both the ECM & TCM connected (together). Are you sending your TCM along with your ECM ? The 07 TBSS's ECM sends specific shifting instructions (determined from many engine operating parameters) to the TCM for the 4L70E trans. Camaro or Corvette shift instructions will not work ! Craig H.

[BossHossMan]

It is great to see all these efforts going on at the same time. Hopefully one of us will get it right soon so everyone else can have the benefits without the aggravation.

Well I think I have resolved my OBD II Data Link Connector problem so I can give the Dyno another try. My next appointment is August 31. I will have the charts from the Dyno runs and I look forward to sharing my results with you. What kind of wheel horsepower do you think I will have? The research I have done indicates that I can expect a 20% drive train loss. If that is the case, I will need 400 wheel HP to claim 500 engine HP. Do you think I will make it?

OBD II Data Link Connector Fix:
The CAN-Bus wires that terminate on pins 6 and 14 of the OBD II Data Link Connector are used for Data communication between the connector, the ECM and the TCM etc. A 120 Ohm resistor is required on each of the far ends of these wires in order to match impedance so the data signals don’t bounce around improperly. Measurements indicated that one of my resistors was missing but I have no idea exactly where these resistors are located without a schematic. I installed a resistor on the wires coming out of the OBD connector and low and behold I can now connect my OBDII reader and it links up properly and reads live data. I suspect that the errant resistor was not installed when all the wiring was replaced on my Trike in 2013.
A BIG Thanks to Craig Haymaker for the CAN-Bus Troubleshooting Guide.

[TXscooterguy]

TXscooterguy, I remember that conversation Sir. YES you indeed can plug your Bluetooth scanner device OR any other handheld OBD-2 CAN Bus data gathering device into your DLC / OBD2 plug. It's not a problem for the CAN Bus loop, in any state of operation.
The only issue that you will have is, while "any device" is plugged into this data port, your Speed Hut gages will cease working ! Gage Hut did this to protect "their" gages.
So you can plug in your Bluetooth or handheld scanner while idling in neutral or while cruising down the road, and record or read live data, but your Speed Hut gages will not work ! Craig H.

Craig, thank you again. I'm now thinking about using the GPS for my speedometer and monitoring the data with the bluetooth OBDII device. While the Speed Hut speedometer may not function, it's not likely that running like this for a long trip would damage their speedometer, right?

[TXscooterguy]

So you can plug in your Bluetooth or handheld scanner while idling in neutral or while cruising down the road, and record or read live data, but your Speed Hut gages will not work ! Craig H.

I was just thinking, that means you can turn off the odometer by plugging something into the port. Having the ability to easily turn your odometer on and off sounds like something that would trouble federal officials. Any odometer reading on a Boss Hoss could be highly suspect. Hmm, maybe I'm over thinking this.

[BossHossMan]

[quote="BossHossMan"]It is great to see all these efforts going on at the same time. Hopefully one of us will get it right soon so everyone else can have the benefits without the aggravation.
Well I think I have resolved my OBD II Data Link Connector problem so I can give the Dyno another try. My next appointment is August 31.

My Dyno appointment today was not successful. DANG! In spite of the fact that my Data Link Plug works great with several OBD II scanners, it will not stay connected to the DynoJet for more than a few seconds. Next steps are checking for software updates to the DynoJet and also calling BH to see what help they can provide.

[gangstaboy1]

BossHossMan, please let us all know what BH says in response to your call for help. It will be interesting to see what they have to say. In the past, getting any response from Doug was hard to come by. Hope they can give us all some advice.

[BossHossMan]

Here is a little update for anyone who is curious. I have disconnected everything on the CAN data bus and with my trusty little mult-imeter proved that I don’t have a short, ground or open but I do have continuity in the two wires to everywhere they are supposed to go. I have also been able to draw a crude schematic.

Back to the two 120-ohm resistors that are required on any CAN data Bus, I found out that one of them is internal in the ECM and I can see that one with my multi-meter so it is good.

But where in the world is the *B4* plug that has the other one across it’s terminals. So I called Boss Hoss. Apparently Doug is no longer there. I talked to TJ who was anxious to help me. After a little research he told me that when they went to the 2013 wiring harness, the *B4* plug was eliminated along with the second 120-ohm resistor. He didn’t really know why. Since my Trike had the wiring all replaced with 2013 wiring, there is no *B4* plug. GRRR

It seems to me that the only thing left that could be the problem is the TCM. TJ agreed to send me a new TCM on an exchange basis.

When I get it, I will stick it in and take it down to the Dynojet to see if it will connect properly. I will let you know the outcome.

[craig haymaker]

I remember that we talked about the second 120 ohm resistor location Tim. On my 2014 trike, plug B-4 was under the tank and just behind the OBD data port. So if a CAN Bus loop requires a resistor at each end, why did the factory eliminate one of them ? Also you say that the "dynojet" won't stay hooked to your OBD port; is Gabe not using HP Tunners software ?
Good luck Tim, Craig H.

[BossHossMan]

Still at a standstill with this project but I am working hard to get it moving. I am confident the wiring, ECM and TCM in my Boss Hoss are perfect. Dynojet is trying to figure out how to make the data link up properly.

No Craig, he is not using the HP tuner software. He is using the Dynojet software. As to your question about why the factory eliminated one of the 120 ohm resisters. If you have a physically short enough network you may be able to get away with only one resister but it isn't optimal. If you can save $20 by eliminating that wire, plug and resister....

[BossHossMan]

New Dyno date of October 9 at a different tuner. I spent a hour there today so I think I am good to go.

[TXscooterguy]

New Dyno date of October 9 at a different tuner. I spent a hour there today so I think I am good to go.

And?

[BossHossMan]

I am glad you asked. I just got home and all is good news.

I discovered (thanks to Craig) that the SpeedHut gauges are also on the CAN Bus so I disconnected them and Dustin (business owner) was able to connect the HP Tuner right up to my Trike with no problem. So, I apparently have a bad gauge but that is another story.

Dustin worked on my Trike for a good 3 hours trying to optimize performance. The results are:

Wheel Horsepower = 400.45
Wheel Torque = 385.85

Conservative powertrain loss = 20%
Engine Horsepower = 500
Engine Torque = 480+

Wheel speed on the Dyno 155 MPH

A little issue did show its face. Above 5200 RPM either the injectors or the fuel pump could not deliver enough fuel to get maximum performance. You will be able to see on the charts where the line got all squiggly. He showed me another fuel/air chart that clearly shows not enough fuel is available. I am assuming that the problem is the fuel pump is not a high enough performer but time will tell. I would appreciate your input.

I will get a few hundred miles on it to make sure anything is fixed that shows up. Dustin did agree to provide this package to anyone who wants it at a fair price. That would be a new ECM with this same tune. But wait a little longer for me to see if there are any issues that pop up before jumping in.

Oh by the way, I switched to a different Tuner. They were great!

[TXscooterguy]

I'm guessing that's your blue coupe on Street to Sand's Facebook page, right?

[BossHossMan]

Yes it is. They did a great job.

[TXscooterguy]

Yes it is. They did a great job.

Can I ask how badly they nicked your wallet?

Can you test your fuel pump's maximum output and pressure? Are you planning on putting in a larger fuel pump? Do your injectors have a listed maximum flow rate?

How many times do you expect to be above 5200 RPM?

[BossHossMan]

I paid $285 to a distributor for the new ECM.

I paid $500 for the Dyno Tune.

At this point I am not going to rush into fixing an inadequate fuel problem that only rears its head when I go over 5200 rpm. I may never fix it in order to get another 5-10 HP which I will never ever use.

I am definitely going to figure out which gauge is giving me troubles as it may be affecting the performance of the ECM and TCM which would then affect performance.

When I talked to Dustin about a price for anyone wanting this set up, he was mentioning somewhere from $500-$550 depending on what his cost would be for the ECM. I am planning on a 250 mile ride on Sunday to discover any outstanding issues and then have it fine tuned next week if he can get me in. For instance I am thinking of raising the idle rpm a bit and lowering the torque converter lock-up rpm some. Once I am satisfied, I will ask him to come up with a firm price for anyone who wants it. Even then, if you wanted something different he could change it but he might want you to pay for the extra time.

[craig haymaker]

TIM, did your tuner verify correct fuel pressure during the dyno run ? 58-60 psi at the shrader valve, back of right fuel rail, @ all RPMs. The fuel pump is capable of much more pressure and capacity than the regulated amount. I suspect a partially clogged fuel filter or faulty press. regulator (all the same component). Also your “in tank” fuel pump has a fine mesh sock filter over it’s intake port.
Craig H.

[BossHossMan]

TIM, did your tuner verify correct fuel pressure during the dyno run ? 58-60 psi at the shrader valve, back of right fuel rail, @ all RPMs. The fuel pump is capable of much more pressure and capacity than the regulated amount. I suspect a partially clogged fuel filter or faulty press. regulator (all the same component). Also your “in tank” fuel pump has a fine mesh sock filter over it’s intake port.
Craig H.

Craig,
The tuner guy did not do any fuel pressure testing and to be perfectly frank the fuel pump information you just provided has increased my fuel pump knowledge quite a bit. Even though I only have 14,000 miles on this machine I will go ahead and change the fuel filter. Thanks.
Tim

[Jack]

I'm surprised your tuner couldn't monitor your injectors... he'd be able to see duty cycle and determine if the injector was too small or if you didn't have enough fuel entering the rail - without monitoring fuel pressure. A fuel pressure gauge would show you a drop in pressure (if that is the culprit) and you'd know right away you had a problem there. An FPR would be a nice addition to your system... would allow you to not only monitor but also react to the condition.

400whp on a motorcycle is an incredible thing. Most guys have no idea how much power they are actually putting down to the road through that 1 little tire.

EDIT - unless this is a trike... then it's just OK

[BossHossMan]

Boss Hoss Idle.3gp

(269.6 KiB) Downloaded 2198 times

Yesterday I had the Tuner make a couple of changes:

Torque Converter: The Original TC locked up at 61 MPH. It is now 55 MPH and it works great. It doesn't keep moving in an out of lock-up since I am usually running at 60-65.

Idle: He made some changes that I really liked. The warm idle is 650 RPM. You can really hear and feel the cam. No stalling or surging. I will try and attach a recording.

This Trike is a real pleasure to ride now and I don't have to worry about getting stuck in an intersection when the engine decides to die. It sounds great and it is "very" fast. I took it out on Sunday and did a couple of "full throttles" at 70 mph. When it hit 100 mph it was pulling so hard that it felt like the rear end was trying to pass the front end. It actually felt like the rear tires were losing traction and it was starting to shift sideways and the Trike became very unstable so I let off. With a more controlled throttle I have had it to 120 mph and it was very stable. You will definitely like this.

My Tuner said he will provide a new ECM with this tune or flash your ECM if it is unlocked for a very reasonable price. Here is his contact information:
Dustin Mileham
email:dmileham@streettosand.com
Phone: 775-327-4401
335 Kietzke Lane
Reno, Nevada 89502

[TXscooterguy]

Any LS 300 boys thinking about giving Dustin some business?

[TXscooterguy]

BossHossMan, are you still as pleased 60 days later? Did anyone decide to go with your tune in a new ECM?

[BossHossMan]

Yes I still like this tune. It idles so nice now with that great random Cam shake and sound rather than the rocking row row row row idle (kind of hard to explain). When I take off after sitting at a light for a long time the engine does not completely stop or dive or hesitate at all. It just takes off as smooth as silk. Every time. It shifts through the gears firmly but not hard. If I get on it a little hard, it shifts a little harder. The engine cruises at any speed very smoothly. There is a little restaurant/bar on a Paiute reservation about 35 miles from my house with a 2 lane road leading there with a 65 MPH limit. Very little traffic. I love going there and just putting my cruise on 70 and listening to the engine and pipes with nothing getting in my way. Ah, life is good. But I regress. This engine with this tune has incredible power. When I give it full throttle at 65, it shifts down and nearly pulls my hands off the bars every time even when I know it is coming and lean into it. It just keeps pulling hard until I let off. It is very easy to burn rubber when getting on it while going slow. I have not tried a full hard take off from a standing start because I am not quite sure what would happen with good traction. I don't want to end up like Carl La Fong.
I don't know for sure if anyone has bought this set up from my Tuner guy but I don't think so. That is too bad because it is all ready to go and he will hand it over for a very reasonable price that is a lot less than I paid and you don't have to put your machine on the Dyno.
I would also recommend this Tuner to do your machine if you want it done specifically to optimize your performance. One advantage I had by being in the area was that I was able to come back several times to fine tune things where as if you come from out of town you might want to plan on being in the area several days so you can pop in and out a few times.
If you have any specific questions let me know.