Holley Carb or not???

[KrautV8]

I was happy with the 1901 carb on the 99 Boss Hoss, but after numerous problems with the 1904 Edlebrock carb on my 07 SS Boss, I now think about other options. What about a Holley carb? Has someone who changed to a Holley a comparisation Holley vs. Edelbrock to offer? Do the Holleys have weak points like the Quadrajets? What about performance, cold starting, fuel milage?

And what Holley carb is the best for a stock ZZ4 350? 600cfm? 750cfm? Double pumper? Vacuum or mechanical secondarys?

Damn, so many options here...

Any suggestions (and order numbers) would be appreciated.

Loaf

[hogv8]

Olaf , i tried a 650 Holley and although it was very crisp I could not get rid of the low end hesitation . I tried all kinds of jet combination's and adjustments and finally gave up and sent it back to JEGS and luckily they refunded my money . I've heard that others had the same low end hesitation and couldn't get rid of it either . I know wag ran the same carb and was able to get his working good but I think he had some help . Since I've had Carb Mike do the stage II modification to my 1901 I wouldn't trade it for anything .

Jack

[Els]

Hi Olaf,

I need to check the "tech" board more often. I forget to look but it's my favorite part of the site!

I played with a number of carbs with the 502 and Gary did the same with his modified small block. We never were happy with the Edelbrock as far as performance. They were fine as far as modest street application but even there, flat spots, etc. Our next step was to Demon and we bought a number of them through Marv and the online catalogs. The Demons were pretty good for the track but sucked for street use. We finally went to Holley and thought we had found the Holy Grail of carbs.

It would clearly be my first choice on the chopper but it's impossible due to carb configuration (dbl pumper) and the frame configuration on the bike. We got the best all around performance with the Holley for sure.

Seems like so many "over carb" their bikes. Unless one has aspirations to modify up in the future, the formula that the carb mfgs use for the correct application is the way to go in my book. When seeing guys with modest 350's or 400's using 800 cfm carbs, it doesn't make sense especially when considering many of our bikes have some intake restrictions due to the frame considerations. You end up jetting down constantly and still having too much.

My 520 hp DART (400 c.i.) has a 600 cfm Edelbrock carb and I've never been fuel starved. To the contrary, I had to regulate the fuel down and probably still over jetted a bit much in the primaries.

You may have to consider climate (need a choke?), your intake restriction, etc. My personal choice is a dbl pumper Holley with mechanical secondaries. If you have the room (which you do on a BH), it's the way to go especially if you're going to crack the throttle a bunch. Just my 2 cents and as with many, it's a matter of some liking chocolate, some liking vanilla.

Elliot

[AR]

Olaf , i tried a 650 Holley and although it was very crisp I could not get rid of the low end hesitation . I tried all kinds of jet combination's and adjustments and finally gave up and sent it back to JEGS and luckily they refunded my money . I've heard that others had the same low end hesitation and couldn't get rid of it either . I know wag ran the same carb and was able to get his working good but I think he had some help . Since I've had Carb Mike do the stage II modification to my 1901 I wouldn't trade it for anything .

Jack

I agree with Jack Olaf. I know i got mine cheap because i gots some pics of CarbyMike that Michelle hasnt seen yet but his work really woke my bike up and its excitement plus each time you start up knowing your carb is properly tuned. He's got my unreserved recommendation for the best $ for HP bike mod you could possibly make.

AF.

[KrautV8]

Thanks for the replies!!!!

The main reason I want to change to Holley is not perfomance related, it's because I had problems with fuel flooding over and over again with the 1904 carb.

Ok, let's try to narrow down to the best Holley carb choice for a stock ZZ4:

600cfm
double pumper
mechanical secondarys
mechanical choke (personal choice)

What else? There are some with single fuel inlet and others with duel fuel inlet. Are there any advantages compared singel fuel inlet against duel inlet??

Holley offers some with "Adjustable Float"...others with "Non Adjustable Float"....what does that mean?
Are they all adjustable, but the "Adjustable Float" ones are adjustable from outside, the others have to be apart to adjust? Or what?


There are some marine models as well - I have heard they are build for Off Road applications and the float can be more angled without engine flooding....they are a lot more expensive, is it worth to invest the additional bucks (when bike on kickstand)??

Thanks,
Loaf

[Els]

Olaf,

I'm hesitant to add much here because there are those that are WAY smarter than me with respect to carbs. I've rebuilt a few and have some experience from both the V8 bikes and some hot rods but am no expert or even close to it. Seems like Carb Mike has been the guru most go to although it seems Mike's forte are the Edelbrock (or Rochester?) carbs. Perhaps he's equally as knowledgeable with others. I will add a few thoughts though regarding your questions since I'm the one who spoke up on the Holleys...

There are a lot of variables within the 600 cfm range. I recall using a 650 at one time and I believe there's another 600 variation but I haven't looked at what's out there. I have a Holley reference bookmarked that may be help. Check.... http://www.holley.com/TechService/Library.asp . You will of course have some product limits depending on style of intake you're using although Holley makes varied models for spread and square bore.

I would be very careful with marine application. One big difference is weight. A lot of the marine applications could be relative to 40' go fast boats weighing quite a bit and powered with a pair of marine big blocks. The weight consideration of our bikes can be decisive in how Holley is calibrating the carb for appropriate use. Elvis may be a good one to talk to here as I've seen pics of his marine setup and it looks very light weight (and awesome).

I've seen a number of different float types including composite (or plastic?) and metal (brass). I'm unsure why the difference. I also know some are adjustable some are not, some adjustments can be made externally, some can't. Sure a lot of variations. I can see pro and con each way. A preset leaves it in the hands of Holley's engineers and experts. Way smarter guys than you or me with respect to carbs but not necessarily keeping our bikes in mind as far as application and calibration. Being able to tweak and doing so without a great deal of hassle sure makes life easier.

I found your interest in marine/off road/angled to be very intuitive Olaf. I live in the mountains and there are almost no straight roads. I'm constantly leaning the chopper one way or another and invariably, end up with flat spots on the throttle coming out of the turns and re-engaging the throttle. I've attributed this to lean angle and float level of course. Here again, your particular application being most important.

I haven't given you any answers, possibly just more questions. There's probably a number of options that would all work and a number that would create a problem so I'd do a lot of homework personally. Jack was lucky dealing with a company that would take a carb back. Jeg's and Summit are pretty good about that.

Good luck and keep us tuned in to what you're doing.

Els

[Elvis]

.... Elvis may be a good one to talk to here as I've seen pics of his marine setup and it looks very light weight (and awesome).....Els

Thanks El
My marine setup is really just street Holley/Blower setup, if your motor is exposed you don't have to run marine grade carbs, or altenators. From what I remember about marine carbs is, no gaskets below the fuel level, and the overflow tubes curve 180 degrees back into venturies.

600cfm
double pumper
mechanical secondarys
mechanical choke (personal choice)

That would be a good choice, the Steet Avenger series might have better manners being vacuum secondaries, and electric choke, but would take up more room. The KingV doesn't have room for either.

What else? There are some with single fuel inlet and others with duel fuel inlet. Are there any advantages compared singel fuel inlet against duel inlet??

Single inlet carbs are usualy shorter front to back, and have side hung floats, rather than center hung like a double pumper.

Holley offers some with "Adjustable Float"...others with "Non Adjustable Float"....what does that mean?
Are they all adjustable, but the "Adjustable Float" ones are adjustable from outside, the others have to be apart to adjust? Or what?

I don't know offhand either.

There are some marine models as well - I have heard they are build for Off Road applications and the float can be more angled without engine flooding....they are a lot more expensive, is it worth to invest the additional bucks (when bike on kickstand)??
Thanks,
Loaf

Unless you do a lot of hard mountain riding like El, probably not.

[Big John]

I was happy with the 1901 carb on the 99 Boss Hoss, but after numerous problems with the 1904 Edlebrock carb on my 07 SS Boss, I now think about other options. What about a Holley carb? Has someone who changed to a Holley a comparisation Holley vs. Edelbrock to offer? Do the Holleys have weak points like the Quadrajets? What about performance, cold starting, fuel milage?

And what Holley carb is the best for a stock ZZ4 350? 600cfm? 750cfm? Double pumper? Vacuum or mechanical secondarys?

Damn, so many options here...

Any suggestions (and order numbers) would be appreciated.

Loaf

what was wrong with the edelbrock?

[carburetormike]

Hi Olaf, FYI the #1904 is a 800cfm carb. Basically it's a #1910 that is not allowed to open the secondary air valves all the way and it also has an electric choke. I bought one off of E-Bay about a year ago, but haven't done anything with it yet.

When I first started doing the rebuilds of the #1910. I just used Neil Weber's jetting and settings combination. Along with some of my other mods used on the #1901. Leaving the Air Valves stock because Edelbrock has it's good reasons for them being the way they are. But after road testing them, and comparing it to my Stage 2 #1901's I knew there was more that could be done in there. One of the first things I found was the 1910-1904 primary rods have a different tip size. So now I modify the .035" tip size down to .027" like the #1901 has, and I also set the secondary rods the same as the #1901's. These have really made a difference on how the 1910 performs.

As for your intermittent flooding problem goes. The possibility could be the carburetor float is sticking or it's getting hung up inside the Float bowl. It could even be a piece of dirt. But I find that to be very unlikely.

From what I've been seeing with fuel over-flow issues is that the Fuel Pumps Pressure relief valves are the source of the problems. Some have put on Fuel pressure gages on, and found their pressure running at 9 psi which would flood any other type of carb you have on an engine. They resolve the problem by either replacing the fuel pump or by adding a Pressure Regulator.

So before you do anything I would mount a pressure gage and see what it's running at. Then the next time you have a running overflow issue check the gage.

Also all automotive carbs. are set up to be level all the time. Which is not what happens to it on a bike. Some bike will over-flow only on the kickstand and some don't. It all depends on how far it leans over. The cure for that is to shut off the petcock will the engine is running. Wait 30 seconds then kill the engine. You can now put the bike on the kickstand without ever having an issue again.

These are things I'd check before making a change. I'm still a little unsure as to when, where, and how you are having these issues. Could you put it in more detail as to when it happened, what you were doing, Was the bike being ridden? Was it on the kickstand? Did it just happen for 2 minutes and then stopped? Was it after a long time just sitting in the garage?

Respectfully Yours, Michael A. Levesque
AKA " Carburetor Mike "
President Boss Hoss Riders Association carburetor.mike@netzero.com

[KrautV8]

First of all - thank you all for your replies!

Well, the carb works fine while running- no hesitation, no bog or similiar and seems to deliver a good performance.

But somehow it leaked fuel from the first moment on when parked for a while. After about ten minutes the contend of the fuel bowl is drained into the intake....then after a couple hours the cylinder bores are flooded. The problem seems to be only present when the engine is hot and the bike is parked.

I installed new needles and seats three times, have set the float level lower two times, checked the float bowl for leaks - filled it up with pure alcohol and did let it sit for hours and found no leaks. Checked for stucking float and anything else, found nothing wrong. Installed a Holley pressure gauge and found a little too much pressure (swaying between 6 to 8 PSI), and borrowed a pressure regulator from a friend, lowered the pressure to 5 PSI, no difference. The plugs at the bottom of the bowl are also sealing fine. But it was (and still does) draining fuel down into the intake after a while when parked with hot engine. I guess it's a very thin crack in the carb housing, I can't imagine it's something else - that would explain why the problem is only when the engine is hot...maybe the crack is bigger when the material expands....

I installed the Jaguar electric fuel valve as a temporary fix, to prevent from an excessive engine damage in case I forget to close the petcock, and that works fine - but, like said, the fuel bowl is still empty after a while when parked, and then, when I come back to start the bike, the engine starts limping and with lots of black smoke.

Mike, your idea of closing the petcock 30 sec before the bike is parked is good, think I will do that for a while from now on, but sooner or later I will buy another carb which hopefully give me no other problems. Andy from Boss Hoss Germany said, after the 1901 was discontinued, the 1904's were installed for a couple of month and made nothing than problems, that's why the factory changed to Holley in late 2006, short before the injection models became standard.

Guys, thanks for all the replies, what you said gave me lot's of food to think about! It's so good to be able to ask you all and hear your opinions.

Olaf

[Els]

Loaf,

Closing the fuel valve before shutting down would be a pain in the butt. I agree, you may have a crack somewhere and heat and expansion are factors.

When walking around the track looking at all the hot rods, mostly small block Chevy types, I never see an Edelbrock carb. Intakes yes. Nitrous systems yes. Carbs...almost never. I personally think Edelbrock carbs are like Colt firearms. Best to have a good gunsmith give it a good working over right out of the box. Their standard of quality leaves something to be desired IMHO. It is evidenced to me by so many needing to redo floats, needles & seats, etc. You would think the Edelbrock engineers would/could do the same things Mike is finding to be beneficial without someone having to do it aftermarket. It's not like they're bargain basement cheap. Anyhow, Holley rules when it comes to percentage of small block Chevy guys at the track. Just the way it is.

On a less subjective note (maybe?)... I have my Edelbrock regulated back to 4 psi. I had heard that 5 or more was too much for those carbs. Maybe Mike could again speak to this issue but as I recall a while back, Jeff Hemperly did some serious testing and actually found that his small block did just fine with around 3 psi. Mine at 4 psi with a 400 c.i. motor making 520 hp doesn't run out of fuel on the high end with that pressure setting. I have 8 lbs on the gas going to the nitrous solenoid but 4 lbs (via a regulator) to the carb.

Elliot

[carburetormike]

Hello again Olaf, I would say you might be right about a crack in the carb. body. I had someone send me a carb that would not run right. I ended up finding the hole in the casting. Fixed it with JB Weld. But the dam thing still wouldn't run right. Took it apart again and found the bottom of the main body was warp as well. Sometimes a carburetor is just junk from the get-go.

What was happening was the bottom of the main body was warp up or kind of doom shaped. The carb would run fine until you opened the secondarys. At that point fuel would get in between the bores and sit in the bowl at the center of the base plate, and boiled out loading up the engine and making it run like crap. I felt bad having to tell the guy I couldn't fix it. You may be having the same problem.

There are some 1901's on E-bay. There is a restored #1901 for $300.00 USD It looks pretty good. More food for thought.


Respectfully Yours, Michael A. Levesque
AKA " Carburetor Mike "
President Boss Hoss Riders Association carburetor.mike@netzero.com

[Big John]

First of all - thank you all for your replies!

Well, the carb works fine while running- no hesitation, no bog or similiar and seems to deliver a good performance.

But somehow it leaked fuel from the first moment on when parked for a while. After about ten minutes the contend of the fuel bowl is drained into the intake....then after a couple hours the cylinder bores are flooded. The problem seems to be only present when the engine is hot and the bike is parked.

I installed new needles and seats three times, have set the float level lower two times, checked the float bowl for leaks - filled it up with pure alcohol and did let it sit for hours and found no leaks. Checked for stucking float and anything else, found nothing wrong. Installed a Holley pressure gauge and found a little too much pressure (swaying between 6 to 8 PSI), and borrowed a pressure regulator from a friend, lowered the pressure to 5 PSI, no difference. The plugs at the bottom of the bowl are also sealing fine. But it was (and still does) draining fuel down into the intake after a while when parked with hot engine. I guess it's a very thin crack in the carb housing, I can't imagine it's something else - that would explain why the problem is only when the engine is hot...maybe the crack is bigger when the material expands....

I installed the Jaguar electric fuel valve as a temporary fix, to prevent from an excessive engine damage in case I forget to close the petcock, and that works fine - but, like said, the fuel bowl is still empty after a while when parked, and then, when I come back to start the bike, the engine starts limping and with lots of black smoke.

Mike, your idea of closing the petcock 30 sec before the bike is parked is good, think I will do that for a while from now on, but sooner or later I will buy another carb which hopefully give me no other problems. Andy from Boss Hoss Germany said, after the 1901 was discontinued, the 1904's were installed for a couple of month and made nothing than problems, that's why the factory changed to Holley in late 2006, short before the injection models became standard.

Guys, thanks for all the replies, what you said gave me lot's of food to think about! It's so good to be able to ask you all and hear your opinions.

Olaf

OK, I read it all and I don't think that you could lean the bike over on the kickstand enough to do this. I would say that there is a casting flaw or a jet passage plug is leaking-I think there might be some on the bottom? maybe.
Take the carb off and fill the bowls and see if they leak and where.
The bowl must be leaking into the plenum. I can't see a syphon effect being able to take place.
Or...... a crack?, but it should be way obvious, if so.

If you wanted a Holly, I think that with a little patience, a model 4175 with vacuum secondaries(650cfm), could work flawlessly for you. It's a spread bore, and I've had them on a few street rods, with good luck and performance, once they're dialed in.
These are a great mileage/performance compromise.
There's also the 4165 with manual secondaries, but I actually like the 4175 better for the street-no bogging.
Also, these have the small bowls, and think will fit the bike.(might have trouble with the vac pot-then use the other, if you don't want to mess with it, but I would keep it)

Then, if you want balls out, it's hard to beat a 650 double pumper, dual feed, with manual secondaries. These are not spread-bored. They have center-hung floats, which are good for the bike application-IE, leaning on turns, kickstand, etc.
These run damn good, no question, and usually bolt right on and run good, right out of the box. Made for small-blocks.
Do they fit right on a B/H? Don't know that one. Ask around, but I think so.

For that matter, I don't see one darn thing wrong with putting on a brand-new Edelbrock 650 (EDL-1805) Thunder Series(has externally-adjustable secondaries on this model).
These run perfecty, if you ask me-no twiddling, once they're dialed in. These definitely fit, and definitely run very good.

All three of these can be had for around the same- $350-ish.

[Tom]

I had a 1910 that once that had a casting flaw that acted just as you describe... I checked the plugs in the bottom and done all the usual tricks but it still flooded when shut off hot. I finally replaced the main body and problem solved.

[Big John]

[quote="Big John"][quote="KrautV8"]First of all - thank you all for your replies!

Well, the carb works fine while running- no hesitation, no bog or similiar and seems to deliver a good performance.

But somehow it leaked fuel from the first moment on when parked for a while. After about ten minutes the contend of the fuel bowl is drained into the intake....then after a couple hours the cylinder bores are flooded. The problem seems to be only present when the engine is hot and the bike is parked.

I installed new needles and seats three times, have set the float level lower two times, checked the float bowl for leaks - filled it up with pure alcohol and did let it sit for hours and found no leaks. Checked for stucking float and anything else, found nothing wrong. Installed a Holley pressure gauge and found a little too much pressure (swaying between 6 to 8 PSI), and borrowed a pressure regulator from a friend, lowered the pressure to 5 PSI, no difference. The plugs at the bottom of the bowl are also sealing fine. But it was (and still does) draining fuel down into the intake after a while when parked with hot engine. I guess it's a very thin crack in the carb housing, I can't imagine it's something else - that would explain why the problem is only when the engine is hot...maybe the crack is bigger when the material expands....

I installed the Jaguar electric fuel valve as a temporary fix, to prevent from an excessive engine damage in case I forget to close the petcock, and that works fine - but, like said, the fuel bowl is still empty after a while when parked, and then, when I come back to start the bike, the engine starts limping and with lots of black smoke.

Mike, your idea of closing the petcock 30 sec before the bike is parked is good, think I will do that for a while from now on, but sooner or later I will buy another carb which hopefully give me no other problems. Andy from Boss Hoss Germany said, after the 1901 was discontinued, the 1904's were installed for a couple of month and made nothing than problems, that's why the factory changed to Holley in late 2006, short before the injection models became standard.

Guys, thanks for all the replies, what you said gave me lot's of food to think about! It's so good to be able to ask you all and hear your opinions.

Olaf,

OK, I read it all and I don't think that you could lean the bike over on the kickstand enough to do this. I would say that there is a casting flaw or a jet passage plug is leaking-I think there might be some on the bottom? maybe.
Take the carb off and fill the bowls and see if they leak and where.
The bowl must be leaking into the plenum. I can't see a syphon effect being able to take place.
Or...... a crack?, but it should be way obvious, if so.

If you wanted a Holly, I think that with a little patience, a model 4175 with vacuum secondaries(650cfm), could work flawlessly for you. It's a spread bore, and I've had them on a few street rods, with good luck and performance, once they're dialed in.
These are a great mileage/performance compromise.
There's also the 4165 with manual secondaries, but I actually like the 4175 better for the street-no bogging.
Also, these have the small bowls, and think will fit the bike.(might have trouble with the vac pot-then use the other, if you don't want to mess with it, but I would keep it)

Then, if you want balls out, it's hard to beat a 650 double pumper, dual feed, with manual secondaries. These are not spread-bored. They have center-hung floats, which are good for the bike application-IE, leaning on turns, kickstand, etc.
These run damn good, no question, and usually bolt right on and run good, right out of the box. Made for small-blocks.
Do they fit right on a B/H? Don't know that one. Ask around, but I think so.

For that matter, I don't see one darn thing wrong with putting on a brand-new Edelbrock 650 (EDL-1805) Thunder Series(has externally-adjustable secondaries on this model).
These run perfecty, if you ask me-no twiddling, once they're dialed in. These definitely fit, and definitely run very good.

All three of these can be had for around the same- $350-ish.

Big John

[Tom]

I know of only one guy with a street avenger on his bike and to make it fit he had to install it backwards to clear the frame tubes. I suspect the vacuum secondary carb would have the same clearance issue with the vacuum pot hitting the frame. He hasn`t ridden the bike much but claims it works fine that way. I would worry about secondary float level on hard acceleration if the holley was installed backwards.

[Els]

I would worry about secondary float level on hard acceleration if the holley was installed backwards.[/quote]





Tom, that was my immediate thought. For putzing around bar-to-bar I'd guess it's fine but under hard acceleration, uh, I don't think so.

John, your comments and mine were the same with the Holley dbl pumper, mechanical secondaries. I've loved every one I had both bike and hotrod.

I made reference to a few things that keep coming back to mind. Why does Holley out number Edelbrock at the track at least 100/1 (carbs) ? Second, I'm convinced that issues such as castings are not getting the attention to detail with Edelbrock that they get with Holley. My comparison was using Colt Firearms as compared to Glock. I've taken half dozen Colts out of the box and had them jam repeatedly until a quality gunsmith can take out the burrs, high spots and other flaws not being taken care of by the quality assurance team at Colt. I suggest the same with Edelbrock. An intake can have some casting issues and it may not be critical. A carb has no room for error.

Elliot

[Big John]

First of all - thank you all for your replies!

Well, the carb works fine while running- no hesitation, no bog or similiar and seems to deliver a good performance.

But somehow it leaked fuel from the first moment on when parked for a while. After about ten minutes the contend of the fuel bowl is drained into the intake....then after a couple hours the cylinder bores are flooded. The problem seems to be only present when the engine is hot and the bike is parked.

I installed new needles and seats three times, have set the float level lower two times, checked the float bowl for leaks - filled it up with pure alcohol and did let it sit for hours and found no leaks. Checked for stucking float and anything else, found nothing wrong. Installed a Holley pressure gauge and found a little too much pressure (swaying between 6 to 8 PSI), and borrowed a pressure regulator from a friend, lowered the pressure to 5 PSI, no difference. The plugs at the bottom of the bowl are also sealing fine. But it was (and still does) draining fuel down into the intake after a while when parked with hot engine. I guess it's a very thin crack in the carb housing, I can't imagine it's something else - that would explain why the problem is only when the engine is hot...maybe the crack is bigger when the material expands....

I installed the Jaguar electric fuel valve as a temporary fix, to prevent from an excessive engine damage in case I forget to close the petcock, and that works fine - but, like said, the fuel bowl is still empty after a while when parked, and then, when I come back to start the bike, the engine starts limping and with lots of black smoke.

Mike, your idea of closing the petcock 30 sec before the bike is parked is good, think I will do that for a while from now on, but sooner or later I will buy another carb which hopefully give me no other problems. Andy from Boss Hoss Germany said, after the 1901 was discontinued, the 1904's were installed for a couple of month and made nothing than problems, that's why the factory changed to Holley in late 2006, short before the injection models became standard.

Guys, thanks for all the replies, what you said gave me lot's of food to think about! It's so good to be able to ask you all and hear your opinions.

Olaf,

OK, I read it all and I don't think that you could lean the bike over on the kickstand enough to do this. I would say that there is a casting flaw or a jet passage plug is leaking-I think there might be some on the bottom? maybe.
Take the carb off and fill the bowls and see if they leak and where.
The bowl must be leaking into the plenum. I can't see a syphon effect being able to take place.
Or...... a crack?, but it should be way obvious, if so.

If you wanted a Holly, I think that with a little patience, a model 4175 with vacuum secondaries(650cfm), could work flawlessly for you. It's a spread bore, and I've had them on a few street rods, with good luck and performance, once they're dialed in.
These are a great mileage/performance compromise.
There's also the 4165 with manual secondaries, but I actually like the 4175 better for the street-no bogging.
Also, these have the small bowls, and think will fit the bike.(might have trouble with the vac pot-then use the other, if you don't want to mess with it, but I would keep it)

Then, if you want balls out, it's hard to beat a 650 double pumper, dual feed, with manual secondaries. These are not spread-bored. They have center-hung floats, which are good for the bike application-IE, leaning on turns, kickstand, etc.
These run damn good, no question, and usually bolt right on and run good, right out of the box. Made for small-blocks.
Do they fit right on a B/H? Don't know that one. Ask around, but I think so.

For that matter, I don't see one darn thing wrong with putting on a brand-new Edelbrock 650 (EDL-1805) Thunder Series(has externally-adjustable secondaries on this model).
These run perfecty, if you ask me-no twiddling, once they're dialed in. These definitely fit, and definitely run very good.

All three of these can be had for around the same- $350-ish.

Big John

I didn't want to complicate matters, but, yes, my AFB is on backwards for the throttle linkage to be on the right side.
It has always been fine, that way. I guess it doesn't make much difference, unless the bike is way raked.
bj
ps Since we are not really concerned with balls-out, I actually think afb-type carbs are better for this. They just run good, for the most part, consistently, with less maintanence, which is the key factor, in my book. I would not consider a Q-Jet on my motor.

[Els]

John,

Just for shits & grins, I went surfing on some of the hotrod sites, both Chevy and Ford to hear what some of the other boards had to say about carbs and Edelbrock vs Holley in particular.

I had expected to see what I myself thought which is the Holley was very much more popular but that wasn't necessarily the case. Seems like the concensus was:

* for easy bolt on and ready to go, the Edelbrock was favored
* for normal street driving, Edelbrock was favored
* for performance driving, Holley was favored
* for normal street driving, vacuum secondaries were favored
* for those that can fine tune a carb periodically, the Holley was favored

It clearly seems like a Ford vs Chevy thing or favoring chocolate over vanilla. In spite of my favoring the Holley personally, my chopper has an Edelbrock that has been great.

Elliot

[Big John]

[quote="Els"]John,

Just for shits & grins, I went surfing on some of the hotrod sites, both Chevy and Ford to hear what some of the other boards had to say about carbs and Edelbrock vs Holley in particular.

I had expected to see what I myself thought which is the Holley was very much more popular but that wasn't necessarily the case. Seems like the concensus was:

* for easy bolt on and ready to go, the Edelbrock was favored
* for normal street driving, Edelbrock was favored
* for performance driving, Holley was favored
* for normal street driving, vacuum secondaries were favored
* for those that can fine tune a carb periodically, the Holley was favored

It clearly seems like a Ford vs Chevy thing or favoring chocolate over vanilla. In spite of my favoring the Holley personally, my chopper has an Edelbrock that has been great.

Elliot[/quote


Yeah, I really do think that AFB's (avs, now, I guess) are
the thing, now, and cheap, actually. They really are consistent, and the vacuum secondary feature is smoother and less prone to glitches, once they get fine-tuned, Holly or Edelbrock. I'm still running an original AFB, from Carter, on my bike. The first one I ever had was in my '63 goat, and loved them ever since.
If you're not seriously racing, I go for good running, and gladly will sacrifice a little power in the name of eliminating bugaboos, especially, considering, having plenty to sacrifice.
I do like the Thunder Series, as you don't have to take the top off. That gets old fast on my bike, with the tank coming off, and all.
I hope Olaf decides to get one.
I'm sure that he would be happy with it.

John

ps. I didn't hear anything about quadrajets being favored, in that shits and grins report-and you probably won't.
1911 Colts are reliable, too. Maybe you should look into a Kimber or an Ed Brown, if you don't do your own smithing. Usually, it's just the clip, ammo, or feed ramp. Actually, just holding the gun more firmly, can improve ejection, thus, feeding.
I don't know of any guns that would equivelate to a q-jet, mechanically, except maybe the French Chauchat.

[KrautV8]

Wooow!!! Thanks for so much input here!!! I'm not sure what carb I'll buy, most likely the Holley with mechanical secondarys, cause we ride a V8 bike and want to have all the power we can get, even if we use only 100HP, 98% of the time...hahaha...

Thanks so much, I will think about all your comments and decide later.

Certainly I will post what I bought and my experience with the new carb - whatever it is.

Loaf

[KrautV8]

UPDATE:

I bought a used 1901, rebuilt it and did some mods on it. It performs flawless. Starts good, idles very smooth and the engine is very strong. No hesitation, flooding or bogs...real nice. I kept the divorced choke because I experienced the starting with my other 1904 carb as a pain in the ass and didn't liked to have the engine to "keep alive" one or two minutes during the start procedure, and usually had to start it two or three times when cold.

Loaf

[Els]

Olaf,

Glad to hear the good results. I too am having extremely good performance with the Edelbrock on my chopper.

I was such a big fan of Holley that I begged Stan to use one when he was building the chopper. There were issues with fit that made it impossible. I was holding my breath when first using the Edelbrock but it's been solid since day one including nitrous related performance.

Els

[gaston 2005 502]

Not being of sound mind, but if i am not mistaken the factory changed from Edlebrock at end of 2005 due to edlebrock not manufacturing the q-jet for the 2006 model year. correct me if i am wrong.
Maybe someone can enlighten us here on what and when & why on carb changes the factory made?

Darryl

[KrautV8]

Darryl, not sure about the exact dates, but when all Quadra-Bogs were discontinoued by Edelbrock, the 1901 were sold out first. The factory bought 1901s from everywere to have some in stock. Then, later, they used the 1904 for a couple of month before all bikes got Holleys. When I ordered my bike at Andy, I had the choice between Holley and Edelbrock and ordered the Quadrajet, because otherwise my frame wouldn't have get the dent to clear the linkage for the secondarys and I thought I would get the 1901 instead of the 1904. The 1904 gave me nothing than problems.

Loaf